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March 29 2024 8.40am

What do you actually expect from Palace?

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 03 Mar 21 2.51pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I’ve done a bit of background reading on it now. In my opinion, FFP is still not helping the smaller teams compete.

The big failure with FFP is that it only benefits the bigger clubs with wealthy owners.

Whilst owners aren't allowed to pump in funds for general working capital purposes they can fund projects like stadium building which in turn results in higher attendances which in turn automatically means higher non TV income

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 03 Mar 21 2.59pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

There have been a number of very good posts on this thread so I am glad I started, and this is my final thought.

I am using collective names for the sake of ease not to deride.

The " Non Roy Out Brigade tend to put more emphasis on facts, objective issues like points etc and are free in criticising style when they don't like it.

The " Roy Out Brigade " are not fact driven and their complaints are predominantly subjective on matters of entertainment, style etc and are often like to forecast gloom and doom opinions as " facts ". i.e We will only get so many points in remaining games and this is what will happen if Roy stays .etc "

Opinions are just that so using " may ", "might", "possibly" rather than " will " might be worth considering.

Good talk

Now, positive thoughts everyone for the Manure game

Edited by HKOwen (03 Mar 2021 12.15pm)

Points stop happening after the other things have eroded. We’re slowly eroding things and storing up problems to come. Soon we will either have one of the 3 worst teams or accept we are when we line up, even if we aren’t. This is what is unfolding. You cannot quantify it because of course it hasn’t happened yet.

I remember that start of season away game at newly promoted Sheffield Utd last season where we treated them like Barcelona. Sheffield utd hadn’t had a chance to get into a stride in the league but we rocked up and let them get into 5th gear as we were struggling to crunch into 2nd.

If I was asked if we should sack Roy, I’d ask for who instead and how they will be equipped. Not why we should sack (extend his contract) Roy. You can do that these days. Those days of the managers’ union and not talking to owners behind the current manager’s back are long gone. Goes with the huge money at risk of failure and multi million bumper pay offs that aren’t really being ‘sacked’ at all.

 


COYP

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View Putitout's Profile Putitout Flag Oxford 03 Mar 21 3.09pm Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Yep, those were the same conclusion I came to, though I feel that the benefits are very much worth the disbenefits, given the utter shambles so many cowboys have left so many football clubs in.

To extend your example of one person earning £1m p/a and the next £100k, with both being able to invest only 10% of it - the further cruel twist is that the guy earning £1m not only has a far larger business than the guy on £100k (with whom he is competing), but will also grow his business not only far larger, but also far faster.

The actual sum equal to each persons 10% will grow each year as their respective businesses grow, but the rate at which the rich mans 10% grows will be far greater than the rate at which the poor mans grows, because his business is ten times larger to begin with.

Hence the situation you describe, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. You could demonstrate therefore that the longer we stay in this league, the relatively less well off we become compared to everyone else who has been in the league as long or longer. Our position in the financial pecking order gets worse every year, not better, unless someone with more money than us makes a mess of it and goes down, and gets replaced by a smaller club than us.

The current FFP regs do play a big part in appraising what one's expectations of Palace actually are, and of seeing the clubs long term plans in context.

It’s a little bit off the detail of what your discussing , but more and more it would seem , the actual Premiership is only ten clubs at most. It could in reality be as little as six.
If they didn’t need opposition, there would be little point in dragging the so called Yo Yo clubs along. There are now certainly enough clubs in that category to form a separate division. TV would still push the mega brand I dare say, so it’s wishful thinking. The most likely outcome might be if the greedy mega bucks outfits decide to dump the triers , for an international arrangement.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 03 Mar 21 3.17pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Putitout

It’s a little bit off the detail of what your discussing , but more and more it would seem , the actual Premiership is only ten clubs at most. It could in reality be as little as six.
If they didn’t need opposition, there would be little point in dragging the so called Yo Yo clubs along. There are now certainly enough clubs in that category to form a separate division. TV would still push the mega brand I dare say, so it’s wishful thinking. The most likely outcome might be if the greedy mega bucks outfits decide to dump the triers , for an international arrangement.

Otherwise known as the European super league. Fans have opposed that idea for decades, but as you rightly say, it's basically a two tier league now anyway. The way the money is distributed makes it harder and harder to change the status quo. Even if you've got determined ownership and great infrastructure like Leicester had, you still need the greatest sports miracle of all time to change your status, and that will wear off when the likes of arsenal get their arse into gear.

The only alternative is to adopt the American model, where the worst team from last year gets first choice of the transfers this year. That apparently prevents monopolies building up, but their system is so different to ours that you couldn't just do as they do directly.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 03 Mar 21 3.38pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Haha, so we have finally nailed it.

1) We are crap
2) We have no real chance of radically improving until we have a 40,000 seat ground, so never basically
3) We might as well put up with it.

Never mind, I might see the Man Utd match in a slightly different light now.

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Online Flag 03 Mar 21 3.41pm Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

I kind of view it as 3 mini leagues - The top 6 or 7 clubs - the middle 6 or 7 clubs & the remainder - in terms of investment were probably in the bottom group with a challenge of clawing our way into the middle group whilst every year watching other clubs drop through the relegation trapdoor, but as has been discussed on here at some length I think we can all see that its a lot easier to talk about it than do it.

 

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View gaz1959's Profile gaz1959 Flag Bamford Lancashire 03 Mar 21 3.53pm Send a Private Message to gaz1959 Add gaz1959 as a friend

I do not expect us to win every game. this is Palace after all,

all I expect is that we try hard, show passion and at least try to attack the opposition, something that our tactics at the moment are a long way from doing.

I'm not moaning just asking for a little bit of fight and spirit, pride in the shirt.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 03 Mar 21 3.57pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Being knocked out of both cups each season without even trying is not what I want. Eventually, I'd like it if we actually tried to win something. It's not likely to be the League, let's tell the truth: a League Cup win or even final would be excellent.
Alternatively, to actually have a new stand would be nice. Even to sort out the toilets in the Arthur would be something.

We all became fans at various times: myself 1979-80 Team of the eighties.
Some previous Big Mal promotion and Cup run 70s.
Some from Sir Steve's side 1989-91, some perhaps with the later team with Southgate etc.
However, who'd join our ranks now? No one turns around and says 'I want to support a team that doesn't try to win anything and also looks unlikely to ever win anything. I'll support a team that does anything, just to stay up year on year.' Why would you?
Basic point is we looked like we were trying to win stuff at various stages, we failed but tried. That's the typical Palace feeling. Underdogs, exciting play, a few surprises. Not cynical stay up at all costs dross, certainly not at the expense of us ever being able to win anything.
I want a football ocassion once in a while, the ocassions we've all had before. Wembley, play offs, Cup runs, 3rd. Park the bus against relegation dross?! No thanks, if I was a neutral I'd support someone else. We won't have picked up many fans from this period: if any. We're the footballing equivalent of Top Gear before Clarkson.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 03 Mar 21 4.16pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

In the present moment I expect them to compete. I expect the players to come off the field knowing they had given 100% to get a positive result. I expect the aim at the beginning of game is to win, none of this 0-0 is the best we could hope for bollocks.
I expect some positive football, with positive mindset that things can be achieved with ambition.

 

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View Putitout's Profile Putitout Flag Oxford 03 Mar 21 4.33pm Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Haha, so we have finally nailed it.

1) We are crap
2) We have no real chance of radically improving until we have a 40,000 seat ground, so never basically
3) We might as well put up with it.

Never mind, I might see the Man Utd match in a slightly different light now.


At this level we are crap, In the Championship we might come to think we are not crap for a while. As Norwich, do now, but allowing for the geography that we find our selfs in that’s how it is . Unless a party with not just money but influence enough to push this club beyond the restraints that have always kept us from being even a South London ,equivalent of the the existing London giants, we will struggle constantly just to stay in the division.
I think we can, but it will always be at the cost of style. And as has always been the case in the past right up to this day, a battle to find that influence needed to bring our dreams of major status to a reality.
If we are true Palace, we have to take them warts and all. If it’s a case of just wanting to watch a team with obvious class , win a trophy now and again then there is more opportunity than ever before to do that at a number of venues. And that’s not me saying , you can’t ask for more you can. I just try to say why getting more is going to be pretty well impossible ,until that mega pot of influence,, and not just money comes along. So that no Palace supporter need look outside of Palace ,for their football treat.
The present football hasn’t been pretty ,no doubt. When they have to get bums back on the seats , and the entertainment doesn’t happen, maybe they might try to get results in a more entertaining fashion. But looking at the facts of life for so many teams relegated trying to be entertaining anything could happen .

 

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View Elwissthebest's Profile Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 03 Mar 21 5.22pm Send a Private Message to Elwissthebest Add Elwissthebest as a friend

We will never win the Premiership. It's just impossible because it's rigged so that only the richest sides can win. How exciting. Even Leicester's success a few seasons ago makes no difference. They are streets ahead of us anyway. But if I wanted to support a team that won all the time, I'd support Citeh. Coppell's team that finished third in the top flight was the best Palace team ever. How did we manage that? Can we ever get back to those heights?
I'd like to think that with ambition and probably with more money than the Chairman wants to spend, and certainly under a new manager, we might aspire to a place in the Europa League one day. How exciting is that? We could travel(imagine) to watch matches at exotic places like Sparta Prague, Celta Vigo, Bayer Leverkusen.
And even play the big teams in the Premiership with the chance of a win once in a while. Actually, not so long ago, this happened.
What I cannot understand is the mindset of those who think the sort of excruciatingly bad football we are serving up at the moment is worthwhile 'because it keeps us in the top flight'. No, I didn't think everything was 'okay' because we beat Brighton. That is small-town thinking at its most incomprehensible.
We have a squad of highly-paid players who should be capable of playing a brand of football that is pleasing on the eye and productive of points. Why should those two things be mutually exclusive?
And I would always expect the team to play with passion. That certainly hasn't happened this season.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 03 Mar 21 6.17pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

It’s incredible that people haven’t grasped this yet;

It’s possible to want to move on from Roy without expecting to compete with Man City and win the league... there are many, many, many levels of progress between that.

We have had considerably better teams than this over the last 7 years and achieved very similar results, yet now supposedly this is the only way that could possibly keep us up? It’s just demonstrably untrue.

All this talk of two-tier leagues, financial restraints compared with the super clubs... it’s just disingenuous.

Compare our performances to the clubs around us.. we’ve lost to plenty of them in the last month it’s fairly easily done.

 

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