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March 29 2024 3.07pm

Economics vs Existentialism

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View slubglurge's Profile slubglurge Flag welling 11 Apr 21 9.57am Send a Private Message to slubglurge Add slubglurge as a friend

Originally posted by Davepalace707

I know none of us want the top monied clubs of the Premier League breaking away into some Euro Super League, but I can’t help thinking it’s heading that way

It wouldn't bother me if it did, a club like ours doesn't belong in the same competition as the big moneybags clubs. At least we wont have to forfeit 12 fixtures every season which is what Roy is doing at the moment

 

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View MonsterMunch's Profile MonsterMunch Flag Cambridge 11 Apr 21 10.01am Send a Private Message to MonsterMunch Add MonsterMunch as a friend

£58m loss- how about for starters stop buying players the manager clearly has not indentified or wants. Mateta another glaring example of loan fee and wages sitting on the bench. Why would any player take the risk of joining palace with Roy in charge.

 

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View Aray's Profile Aray Flag South London 11 Apr 21 10.11am Send a Private Message to Aray Add Aray as a friend

Originally posted by slubglurge

It wouldn't bother me if it did, a club like ours doesn't belong in the same competition as the big moneybags clubs. At least we wont have to forfeit 12 fixtures every season which is what Roy is doing at the moment

Respect to the OP for his intelligent post. And graceful follow up explanation.

I’m afraid my contribution will not be so elegant. I think the top teams should eff off to their super league. Yeah Some folks will watch it on the telly from time to time but personally I think they’ll find out it was a huge mistake. Even if they don’t - it would be better for the game if we had a smaller gap between the top 3/4 and the rest. It’s an even bigger problem in France, Germany and Spain.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 11 Apr 21 10.16am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Existential nihilist then.

Isn't that Evertons motto?

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 11 Apr 21 10.20am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Isn't that Evertons motto?

I wouldn't know for toffee.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 11 Apr 21 10.23am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Ergonomics is the word everyone is looking for.

 

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View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag Living The Dream 11 Apr 21 11.38am Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

Originally posted by Elwissthebest

Apologies, and to Midland Eagle as well, for any obscurity.
By 'existential', I mean an assertion of the will that exceeds expectation. In this case, the expectation is that you can't escape economics. At the end of the season, you are looking, by and large, at a League table that reflects economic advantage. But Chelsea 2 West Brom 5 can't be explained by that. So how to explain it other than by a 'super-human' effort?
So when did Palace last exceed expectation? You can't overcome a technically superior opposition other than by countering that superiority by something different, unusual, unexpected. But in no respect could we even match Chelsea yesterday. As Chris Coleman said, Chelsea 'wanted it more'. How can that be?
Let's imagine that for some reason, we had Klopp or Guardiola managing us for a season. What difference would it make? Ten more points a season? So in that respect Hodgson isn't the problem. What is a problem is that we can still be as outclassed as we were yesterday. We'll never have the money to compete with the big teams, but in the absence of that, we need inspiration from somewhere, and it's in pretty short supply at the moment. My point was simply that many posters, and perhaps the Board, accepts that economic circumstances means we can't do better than hope to escape relegation every year. Really? After eight seasons in the top flight? That we might do better than just that is what, for good or ill, I chose to term Existentialism. With respect, my use of the term is not misplaced. An early poster-The Big Toe Punt?-caught the sense of this very well.

But Hodgson is the problem (or at least a large part of it). It's about getting the best out of what you've got.

If Roy had Lewandowski, he'd expect him to drop back and defend, and nullify his attacking threat.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 12 Apr 21 12.29am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by EddieMac

Is that the first google meaning you got when you searched for it?

Is that your best put down line? Tell me, did Google confirm what I wrote? As I don't use a Google search engine I wouldn't know. If it did, why resort to playground level jibes? And if it didn't, please give you erudite definition of the word. wat.

I must stop dropping my T's...

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (12 Apr 2021 12.29am)

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Online Flag 12 Apr 21 10.35am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Hi Elwiss,
In terms of the feeling that the wealth of a club or their expenditure on better players roughly equates to the league position I agree with you - however I didn't see the Chelsea / WB game or the highlights, (so my thoughts may be complete BS) but when I saw the score my first thought was that Chelsea had probably underestimated WB & we were going to pay the price.


Originally posted by Elwissthebest

Apologies, and to Midland Eagle as well, for any obscurity.
By 'existential', I mean an assertion of the will that exceeds expectation. In this case, the expectation is that you can't escape economics. At the end of the season, you are looking, by and large, at a League table that reflects economic advantage. But Chelsea 2 West Brom 5 can't be explained by that. So how to explain it other than by a 'super-human' effort?
So when did Palace last exceed expectation? You can't overcome a technically superior opposition other than by countering that superiority by something different, unusual, unexpected. But in no respect could we even match Chelsea yesterday. As Chris Coleman said, Chelsea 'wanted it more'. How can that be?
Let's imagine that for some reason, we had Klopp or Guardiola managing us for a season. What difference would it make? Ten more points a season? So in that respect Hodgson isn't the problem. What is a problem is that we can still be as outclassed as we were yesterday. We'll never have the money to compete with the big teams, but in the absence of that, we need inspiration from somewhere, and it's in pretty short supply at the moment. My point was simply that many posters, and perhaps the Board, accepts that economic circumstances means we can't do better than hope to escape relegation every year. Really? After eight seasons in the top flight? That we might do better than just that is what, for good or ill, I chose to term Existentialism. With respect, my use of the term is not misplaced. An early poster-The Big Toe Punt?-caught the sense of this very well.

 

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View JRW2's Profile JRW2 Flag Dulwich 12 Apr 21 12.49pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Originally posted by slubglurge

It wouldn't bother me if it did, a club like ours doesn't belong in the same competition as the big moneybags clubs. At least we wont have to forfeit 12 fixtures every season which is what Roy is doing at the moment

Couldn't agree more. These clubs are a blot on the football landscape. I wish they's go off and play with themselves and their Continental equivalents so that the rest of us can get back to a truly competitive league structure.

 

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View Elwissthebest's Profile Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 12 Apr 21 1.06pm Send a Private Message to Elwissthebest Add Elwissthebest as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

Hi Elwiss,
In terms of the feeling that the wealth of a club or their expenditure on better players roughly equates to the league position I agree with you - however I didn't see the Chelsea / WB game or the highlights, (so my thoughts may be complete BS) but when I saw the score my first thought was that Chelsea had probably underestimated WB & we were going to pay the price.

Greetings!

I'm sure you're right. When you look at the gulf in class between Chelsea and WBA it's a result that shouldn't have happened. Chelsea had a man sent off but even so. How often have we struggled against ten man oppositions!
In a way, it's the sort of result that should keep one optimistic because it shows wealth doesn't always win. But of course, over the long term it does. The whole point of my original post was to savour all those things about football that mean results are not always economically determined. An example of the sort of thing I had in mind would be charisma, imagination, belief, commitment, even sheer cussedness. The sort of thing that is exemplified by Marco Bielsa. He's got five players in his current team who were part of a Leeds side that not so long ago was struggling in the Championship. He has simply made them better players in a way that our manager is not capable. How many Palace players has Roy Hodgson improved? I can think of several he hasn't! But this isn't intentionally an anti-Hodgson post. I don't want him sacked, but I don't want his contract renewed either. Posters who are unhappy about my use of 'existential' to describe that sense of being able to exceed economic expectation might consider what Claudio Ranieri achieved with Leicester when they won the Premiership. If ever there was an example of a man who 'changed the world by thinking about it' (pure Sartre) it was he.

 

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 12 Apr 21 2.43pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

It’s fairly simple, league position is generally determined by the financial budget of the club.
A manager can make a small difference, but not as much as money can.

 

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