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April 24 2024 2.01am

Cummings turns on Boris.

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 9.38am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Is German healthcare free at source or primarily privately funded? I genuinely don’t know.

It is funded by a mixture of State funding and a form of levy on employees (krankenkasse) set up by Bismark which goes into one of around 1,100 funds. Employees contribute 7% of their income.

In terms of efficiency, the UK spends 70% per head of what Germany spends.

 

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View Fatherken's Profile Fatherken Flag 27 May 21 9.43am Send a Private Message to Fatherken Add Fatherken as a friend

Sorry have to disagree .

We have the best health system in the world .

If we had a private health system it would be based on the US one where you have to prove you can pay before treatment .

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 9.46am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Cummings has said:

1 The first lockdown came too late
2 Care Homes were forced to take people from hospitals who would certainly have already had COVID
3 The third lockdown should have been avoided by a 'firebreak'
4 The Government was in disarray and headless
5 Johnson was far more interested in the effect on economics than public health
6 That interest ended up backfiring as the economy suffered for a longer period

All of this falls into the category of 'no sh*t Sherlock'.

I have no doubt if you look back over posts at the time you will see many of us stating all of these things before it was too late

As a businessman I implemented a lockdown before the Government did. We refused hospital patients to protect our residents. We argued for a firebreak and watched a slow motion car crash in the Autumn.

As a result, in December 19 residents in one Home caught COVID and 7 died. It was heartbreaking and absolutely avoidable. Most were people enjoying life with plenty more years to live.

Cummings' confirmation is welcome but hardly news.

Anyone that thinks the Labour Party would have taken the same path isn't paying attention. Johnson was far more interested in financial wellbeing than the health of the nation, which would not have been the case with the Labour Party despite any other failings it may or may not have.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 9.46am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Fatherken

Sorry have to disagree .

We have the best health system in the world .

If we had a private health system it would be based on the US one where you have to prove you can pay before treatment .

With whom?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 27 May 21 9.49am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Please give examples. Are you for example talking about Germany?

Seriously? Are you saying that privatised healthcare doesn't exist in Europe. It tends to be a mixture hospitals are state run GPS and minor procedures private.

just go and Google it.

 


One more point

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 27 May 21 9.51am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Fatherken

Sorry have to disagree .

We have the best health system in the world .

If we had a private health system it would be based on the US one where you have to prove you can pay before treatment .

Why does a private healthcare system have to be based on the US model which I agree I would not like. Plenty of socialist countries have this private public mix we should look at the best.

The US model is not one I would favour.

Edited by Badger11 (27 May 2021 9.51am)

 


One more point

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jeeagles Flag 27 May 21 10.09am

Originally posted by Badger11

Yup across Europe many of the most successful healthcare systems are privately run. The idea that the NHS has to be nationalised is nonsense as long as it is free at point of use we need to look at these successful European models.

Croynism around the NHS has lead to ridiculous levels of protection for it.

People from the UK that have never experienced alternative health care don't see how bad it is.

Much like how people who've never left London can't see how bad crime in the capital is.

Free at the point of use for doesn't work. It just creates layers and layers of inefficient bureaucracy. Doctors end up accountable to bureaucrats that pay them and not patient.

GP's surgeries have always been limited companies who get to claim from the NHS based on the number of people registered to them. It's a payment mechanism that incentivises getting as many people registered as possible and not helping patients. They are generally owned by a few old GP's with no idea how to run a business. Full privatisation would make these better.

Those who have the ability to dodge tax get access to free healthcare and people that can't afford to dodge tax pick up the bill.

People are no longer taking accountability for their own health. Then complaining that they can't get access to a free service. People have enough money to shove drugs up their nose every weekend, then complain they can't get free mental health treatment.

I think the poorest should still have access to free healthcare, but I'd much rather pay 30% tax and pay to see a GP rather than 40% tax and get one for free.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 10.46am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Seriously? Are you saying that privatised healthcare doesn't exist in Europe. It tends to be a mixture hospitals are state run GPS and minor procedures private.

just go and Google it.

Just go and get a coffee, maybe you will wake up

Give me an example of where a European privatised system outperforms the NHS.

As a matter of interest I know the healthcare system - from the perspective of employees - in each European country. It's my job.

 

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View Orange1290's Profile Orange1290 Flag 27 May 21 11.25am Send a Private Message to Orange1290 Add Orange1290 as a friend

Originally posted by Fatherken

Sorry have to disagree .

We have the best health system in the world .

If we had a private health system it would be based on the US one where you have to prove you can pay before treatment .

"In summary, little evidence seems to exist to prove the belief that the NHS is the “envy of the world”, at least if we are talking about the developed world. The UK’s health service surely provides adequate and often excellent care, but many questions remain about whether that care is as good as the standards of our cultural and physical neighbors in Europe and the rest of the world. The author believes that the British public deserves a rational debate about how best to finance, organize and provide healthcare in the UK today.

[Link]

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 11.46am Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Cummings has said:

1 The first lockdown came too late
2 Care Homes were forced to take people from hospitals who would certainly have already had COVID
3 The third lockdown should have been avoided by a 'firebreak'
4 The Government was in disarray and headless
5 Johnson was far more interested in the effect on economics than public health
6 That interest ended up backfiring as the economy suffered for a longer period

All of this falls into the category of 'no sh*t Sherlock'.

I have no doubt if you look back over posts at the time you will see many of us stating all of these things before it was too late

As a businessman I implemented a lockdown before the Government did. We refused hospital patients to protect our residents. We argued for a firebreak and watched a slow motion car crash in the Autumn.

As a result, in December 19 residents in one Home caught COVID and 7 died. It was heartbreaking and absolutely avoidable. Most were people enjoying life with plenty more years to live.

Cummings' confirmation is welcome but hardly news.

Anyone that thinks the Labour Party would have taken the same path isn't paying attention. Johnson was far more interested in financial wellbeing than the health of the nation, which would not have been the case with the Labour Party despite any other failings it may or may not have.

I have no faith that there would be any difference if Labour - or in fact any other party - would have been in control at this time of frankly unprecedented circumstances. They may not have made exactly the same decisions, but the end result would be the same - their opponents would look to castigate them for any and everything they may have gotten slightly wrong.
All of these accusations are with benefit of Hindsight. I have To believe that the people in control of this country, be it Tory, Labour, BNP(god save us if this even happens) or Green party, are
doing it for the Countries benefits based on the principles they displayed when they were democratically voted in.

From where I'm sat, Boris et al have had to take us through a very difficult situation where they were attempting to keep the county going whilst minimising risks to public health. We've ended up being one of the few countries with an successful vaccination program - and one that looks like we can see the end to all this the soonest.
Yes mistakes were made, but I'm not going to castigate any of them for this. Especially when there is no apparent alternative who could have done any better.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 11.51am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Orange1290

"In summary, little evidence seems to exist to prove the belief that the NHS is the “envy of the world”, at least if we are talking about the developed world. The UK’s health service surely provides adequate and often excellent care, but many questions remain about whether that care is as good as the standards of our cultural and physical neighbors in Europe and the rest of the world. The author believes that the British public deserves a rational debate about how best to finance, organize and provide healthcare in the UK today.

[Link]

The Commonwealth Fund 2014 report said the NHS was the most cost-effective system of the 11 countries they looked at. A 2011 study found the NHS saved more lives per pound spent than any other country studied except Ireland.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 11.55am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

All of these accusations are with benefit of Hindsight.

Not so

I for one saw all of these mistakes in the making, before they took effect, and stated that.

Just throwing your hands in the air and saying it made no difference how things were led is total nonsense.

If you lead an organisation you make an enormous difference. Our organisation kept COVID out until the final knockings. Our residents were vaccinated just before they died. They needed a couple more weeks, then they would have lived. The lack of a firebreak is what killed them. Look back at what opposition parties were saying at that time.

 

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