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April 25 2024 3.13am

Cummings turns on Boris.

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 12.30pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Not so

I for one saw all of these mistakes in the making, before they took effect, and stated that.

Just throwing your hands in the air and saying it made no difference how things were led is total nonsense.

If you lead an organisation you make an enormous difference. Our organisation kept COVID out until the final knockings. Our residents were vaccinated just before they died. They needed a couple more weeks, then they would have lived. The lack of a firebreak is what killed them. Look back at what opposition parties were saying at that time.

I'm not saying do not investigate mistakes, and don't hold those to account for their mistakes. but no thought has been given to quite what a difficult and unprecedented job that these people have had to do.

I'm not saying that under different Leadership it would not have been different, but different does not equal better.
A firebreak may have helped in your situation, but hindered others (although on the surface, it does appear to be economy over public health) Whats to say, for example, that if we had a firebreak then more businesses go under, this will lead to more poverty leading to more deaths. Ok, not Covid deaths, but deaths caused by the decision Of a government all the same. That's for an enquiry to decide.
And as for opposition Parties, I've no inclination to go back to see what they were saying - their job description appears to be 'disagree with those in power'. It does not mean that that is what they would have done if they were in the same situation. It's all mouth service to them.


 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 12.38pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

I'm not saying do not investigate mistakes, and don't hold those to account for their mistakes. but no thought has been given to quite what a difficult and unprecedented job that these people have had to do.

I'm not saying that under different Leadership it would not have been different, but different does not equal better.
A firebreak may have helped in your situation, but hindered others (although on the surface, it does appear to be economy over public health) Whats to say, for example, that if we had a firebreak then more businesses go under, this will lead to more poverty leading to more deaths. Ok, not Covid deaths, but deaths caused by the decision Of a government all the same. That's for an enquiry to decide.
And as for opposition Parties, I've no inclination to go back to see what they were saying - their job description appears to be 'disagree with those in power'. It does not mean that that is what they would have done if they were in the same situation. It's all mouth service to them.


I didn't find it unprecedented. I had written a policy for pandemic management many years ago after the first SARS. I was also used to managing in a crisis, for example the underground bombings.

The Government, it seems, had not learned such lessons.

It beggars belief that you say it wasn't THAT badly managed or it's not really the fault of leadership.

Before the pandemic we were assessed as in a better position than almost any other country to survive a pandemic and cope well. We have a 2.9% case fatality rate and 192 deaths per hundred thousand population. More than Colombia.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 May 21 1.08pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I didn't find it unprecedented. I had written a policy for pandemic management many years ago after the first SARS. I was also used to managing in a crisis, for example the underground bombings.

The Government, it seems, had not learned such lessons.

It beggars belief that you say it wasn't THAT badly managed or it's not really the fault of leadership.

Before the pandemic we were assessed as in a better position than almost any other country to survive a pandemic and cope well. We have a 2.9% case fatality rate and 192 deaths per hundred thousand population. More than Colombia.

Hold on. Surely a plan to deal with a Pandemic is not a party issue, neither would it have been written recently. We have known about pandemics for a long time.

You can't blame this government for having no blueprint to fall back on, as much as you would like to.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 1.50pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Hold on. Surely a plan to deal with a Pandemic is not a party issue, neither would it have been written recently. We have known about pandemics for a long time.

You can't blame this government for having no blueprint to fall back on, as much as you would like to.

Just take a look at Exercise Cygnus and its recommendations.

The plan isn't a party issue initially but how the plan is implemented certainly is. And, moreover, making sure each area of the response teams is properly ready is the responsibility of the Minister, no question.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 1.52pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

10 January 2020

WHO issued a comprehensive package of technical guidance online with advice to all countries on how to detect, test and manage potential cases, based on what was known about the virus at the time. This guidance was shared with WHO's regional emergency directors to share with WHO representatives in countries.

Based on experience with SARS and MERS and known modes of transmission of respiratory viruses, infection and prevention control guidance were published to protect health workers recommending droplet and contact precautions when caring for patients, and airborne precautions for aerosol generating procedures conducted by health workers.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 1.57pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

[Link]

A House of Lords committee has concluded years of underfunding left local services ill equipped to cope and “fundamental weaknesses” must be tackled to make services resilient enough to withstand future crises.

Which Government was in charge during these years?

So a weakened infrastructure plus an incredibly slow response to the warnings. Compare with South East Asian countries for example.

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 1.59pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I didn't find it unprecedented. I had written a policy for pandemic management many years ago after the first SARS. I was also used to managing in a crisis, for example the underground bombings.

The Government, it seems, had not learned such lessons.

It beggars belief that you say it wasn't THAT badly managed or it's not really the fault of leadership.

Before the pandemic we were assessed as in a better position than almost any other country to survive a pandemic and cope well. We have a 2.9% case fatality rate and 192 deaths per hundred thousand population. More than Colombia.

he Labour Government of 2003 should have created the pandemic policy after the first SARS outbreak Then, should they not?
a tad unfair to point fingers at the current incumbents for not having The foresight to create a pandemic policy for that.

I'm also not commenting on how badly or well it was managed, more that people are quick to find blame and slow on praise for the efforts that people have made.
It's very easy to say that someone could have done better. Who's to say that they could have done given the same decisions in the same circumstances.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

he Labour Government of 2003 should have created the pandemic policy after the first SARS outbreak Then, should they not?
a tad unfair to point fingers at the current incumbents for not having The foresight to create a pandemic policy for that.

I'm also not commenting on how badly or well it was managed, more that people are quick to find blame and slow on praise for the efforts that people have made.
It's very easy to say that someone could have done better. Who's to say that they could have done given the same decisions in the same circumstances.

No point in debating with you if you don't take evidence into account.

The plan was in place. It was found lacking in 2016. Many areas of weakness weren't addressed. The plan was then poorly implemented, partially due to Ministry weaknesses which were pointed out in Exercise Cygnet.

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 2.10pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

No point in debating with you if you don't take evidence into account.

The plan was in place. It was found lacking in 2016. Many areas of weakness weren't addressed. The plan was then poorly implemented, partially due to Ministry weaknesses which were pointed out in Exercise Cygnet.

This the same plan, that "Before the pandemic we were assessed as in a better position than almost any other country to survive a pandemic and cope well"?

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

This the same plan, that "Before the pandemic we were assessed as in a better position than almost any other country to survive a pandemic and cope well"?

No, obviously not. How could a UK plan review itself against international plans

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.20pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Pandemics historically have killed as many people as the wars that have beset this world, yet the resources committed to pandemic prevention and response are a fraction of the resources we commit to security. This paper examines the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 by analysing the preparedness and responses of the UK, the USA, Germany, and South Korea. We will evidence that the UK and USA lacked the levels of preparedness that global health reports indicated, and that their responses were diametrically opposite of those of Germany and South Korea. We argue that decades of deregulation and privatization due to neoliberal, free-market economics by the UK and USA led to the Great Recession of 2008. This, in turn, led to economic collapse and austerity (increased neoliberalism), which negatively impacted investment in healthcare in the UK and USA. This resulted in very different levels of preparedness and responses by the four countries under the microscope.

[Link]

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.21pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

On Oct. 24, 2019—45 days before the world’s first suspected case of COVID-19 was announced—a new “scorecard” was published called the Global Health Security Index. The scorecard ranked countries on how prepared they were to tackle a serious outbreak, based on a range of measures, including how quickly a country was likely to respond and how well its health care system would “treat the sick and protect health workers.” The U.S. was ranked first out of 195 nations, and the U.K. was ranked second.

[Link]

 

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