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April 26 2024 12.51am

Cummings turns on Boris.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 May 21 2.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Just take a look at Exercise Cygnus and its recommendations.

The plan isn't a party issue initially but how the plan is implemented certainly is. And, moreover, making sure each area of the response teams is properly ready is the responsibility of the Minister, no question.

Hypothetical and practical are not the same thing. Knowing about potential problems and being able to realistically fix them are also quite different.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.30pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Hypothetical and practical are not the same thing. Knowing about potential problems and being able to realistically fix them are also quite different.

Ah, so basically Ministers aren't responsible for their Departments. Thanks for the clarification.

Or perhaps you are saying four years is too short a time to e.g. replace out of date PPE.

Edited by Mapletree (27 May 2021 2.31pm)

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 2.51pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Pandemics historically have killed as many people as the wars that have beset this world, yet the resources committed to pandemic prevention and response are a fraction of the resources we commit to security. This paper examines the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 by analysing the preparedness and responses of the UK, the USA, Germany, and South Korea. We will evidence that the UK and USA lacked the levels of preparedness that global health reports indicated, and that their responses were diametrically opposite of those of Germany and South Korea. We argue that decades of deregulation and privatization due to neoliberal, free-market economics by the UK and USA led to the Great Recession of 2008. This, in turn, led to economic collapse and austerity (increased neoliberalism), which negatively impacted investment in healthcare in the UK and USA. This resulted in very different levels of preparedness and responses by the four countries under the microscope.

[Link]

Originally posted by Mapletree

On Oct. 24, 2019—45 days before the world’s first suspected case of COVID-19 was announced—a new “scorecard” was published called the Global Health Security Index. The scorecard ranked countries on how prepared they were to tackle a serious outbreak, based on a range of measures, including how quickly a country was likely to respond and how well its health care system would “treat the sick and protect health workers.” The U.S. was ranked first out of 195 nations, and the U.K. was ranked second.

[Link]

aren't they a little contradictory? We were best prepared, but due to lack of funding, we weren't?

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 2.58pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

aren't they a little contradictory? We were best prepared, but due to lack of funding, we weren't?

The assessment of preparedness takes into account a variety of issues. We should have been in a strong position based on the economy of the country, our approach to crisis management and the healthcare infrastructure, according to an assessment done before the pandemic

In an assessment completed after, it became clear we weren't as ready as we should and could have been. We 'lacked the levels of preparedness that global health reports indicated', i.e. the kind of report referenced from October 2019. And also our responses at the time the pandemic hit were weak due to the 'neo liberalism' that had become ingrained.

We had frittered away our natural advantage and our response was poor once it hit.

Still want to argue the Government did as good a job as could be expected?

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 27 May 21 3.01pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Hold on. Surely a plan to deal with a Pandemic is not a party issue, neither would it have been written recently. We have known about pandemics for a long time.

You can't blame this government for having no blueprint to fall back on, as much as you would like to.

I’m with you on this bit. It’s neglect going back years. I guess it’s the decision of spending money on something that *might* happen rather than something that *is* happening for any government.

Any large organisation will have a disaster plan in place for any large scale unforeseen events so the fact that there was not one for a global pandemic makes you wonder what else they would be completely ill prepared for.

 

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jeeagles Flag 27 May 21 3.20pm

Originally posted by DanH

I’m with you on this bit. It’s neglect going back years. I guess it’s the decision of spending money on something that *might* happen rather than something that *is* happening for any government.

Any large organisation will have a disaster plan in place for any large scale unforeseen events so the fact that there was not one for a global pandemic makes you wonder what else they would be completely ill prepared for.

No government or opposition anywhere in the world had prepared properly for a pandemic.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 3.25pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

No government or opposition anywhere in the world had prepared properly for a pandemic.

Really?

After experiencing a sharp growth in COVID-19 cases early in the pandemic, South Korea rapidly controlled transmission while implementing less stringent national social distancing measures than countries in Europe and the USA. This has led to substantial interest in their “test, trace, isolate” strategy.

[Link]

 

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View Orange1290's Profile Orange1290 Flag 27 May 21 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Orange1290 Add Orange1290 as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

No government or opposition anywhere in the world had prepared properly for a pandemic.


Sure but some countries had been investing significantly more each year for decades into their health systems. It's also not about the actual amounts but also how that money is spent. From what I've seen much of the money going into the NHS has been siphoned off by consultants and senior management rather that improving the infrastructure of the NHS that touches those that needs its services. Therefore the actual investment is even less than many other countries who have managed to push their investment into actual beds and staff to service those beds.


Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 3.28pm)

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 27 May 21 3.38pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Orange1290


Sure but some countries had been investing significantly more each year for decades into their health systems. It's also not about the actual amounts but also how that money is spent. From what I've seen much of the money going into the NHS has been siphoned off by consultants and senior management rather that improving the infrastructure of the NHS that touches those that needs its services.

Do you have proof of this? For example in comparison with other large healthcare systems such as the US?

It is a stick that proponents of privatisation like to use to beat the NHS. My old employer, a massive US healthcare provider, would do some pretty underhand things to get a toe in the door of the NHS and I am sure has some nice 'relationships' with Government Ministers and their advisors.

Overall the Dept of Health & Social Care spends £212bn per annum. £22.65m of that goes to consultants. This would include IT and data analytics type work. The US spends $50bn on consultants.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 May 21 3.40pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Ah, so basically Ministers aren't responsible for their Departments. Thanks for the clarification.

Or perhaps you are saying four years is too short a time to e.g. replace out of date PPE.

Edited by Mapletree (27 May 2021 2.31pm)

More straw man?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 May 21 3.48pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

I’m with you on this bit. It’s neglect going back years. I guess it’s the decision of spending money on something that *might* happen rather than something that *is* happening for any government.

Any large organisation will have a disaster plan in place for any large scale unforeseen events so the fact that there was not one for a global pandemic makes you wonder what else they would be completely ill prepared for.

Everything I would guess. We have a history of being slow to wake up in the West. WW2 is a good example.

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 27 May 21 4.02pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

The assessment of preparedness takes into account a variety of issues. We should have been in a strong position based on the economy of the country, our approach to crisis management and the healthcare infrastructure, according to an assessment done before the pandemic

In an assessment completed after, it became clear we weren't as ready as we should and could have been. We 'lacked the levels of preparedness that global health reports indicated', i.e. the kind of report referenced from October 2019. And also our responses at the time the pandemic hit were weak due to the 'neo liberalism' that had become ingrained.

We had frittered away our natural advantage and our response was poor once it hit.

Still want to argue the Government did as good a job as could be expected?

Again, wasn't arguing that we did a good job; or that we did a bad job, more that the blame game is in full flow and that regardless of mistakes or previous decisions made, to say that someone else would have done better is an easy argument, and that's all that seems to happen nowadays. All for holding people to account, but don't kid me that the opposition wouldn't have made similar 'mistakes' too.
They had some very difficult decisions to make, in incredibly difficult circumstances and they made them(whether they were 'correct' or not).

Don't forget that we've come out the other end ahead of nearly everyone else with a fully effective and efficient vaccination program.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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