Cummings turns on Boris.

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steeleye20 Croydon 27 May 21 4.21pm
I think Cummins has informed us what we really already suspected anyway. There are other culprits of course, namely the opposition labour party's complete inability to do anything else but support the government, and the media's concoction of implausible reasons for every Johnson cock-up. 'Boris Johnson's Covid Churchill Moment' springs to mind.
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steeleye20

Croydon 27 May 21 4.21pm

I think Cummins has informed us what we really already suspected anyway.

There are other culprits of course, namely the opposition labour party's complete inability to do anything else but support the government, and the media's concoction of implausible reasons for every Johnson cock-up.

'Boris Johnson's Covid Churchill Moment' springs to mind.

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Spiderman Horsham 27 May 21 4.36pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I think Cummins has informed us what we really already suspected anyway. There are other culprits of course, namely the opposition labour party's complete inability to do anything else but support the government, and the media's concoction of implausible reasons for every Johnson cock-up. 'Boris Johnson's Covid Churchill Moment' springs to mind. So now everyone believes Cummins? Interesting
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Spiderman

Horsham 27 May 21 4.36pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think Cummins has informed us what we really already suspected anyway.

'Boris Johnson's Covid Churchill Moment' springs to mind.

So now everyone believes Cummins? Interesting

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The Dolphin 27 May 21 6.00pm
As I see it - politics aside - the PM and his Ministers are not responsible for 30 odd years of cut backs by successive Governments. They have done a bit of course but from Blair through Cameron beds have been slashed as much as investment in infrastructure. They all think short term to get re-elected and it is not in the best interests of the country. The constant of course is the generally useless - but not always - Civil Service who are meant to run everything behind the scenes but regularly fail to do so. PPE was hardly Hancock's fault. The fact it wasn't there is the prick who didn't order its fault. Whoever was in charge would have been hamstrung by previous mistakes and some very poor employees in my opinion. Did Boris get stuff wrong - bloody right he did - but I defy anyone without the benefit of hindsight to have got it right. It is really easy to throw brickbats after the event and DC looks a complete arse in my eyes. Bile and vitriol being the order of the day. Edited by The Dolphin (27 May 2021 6.02pm) Edited by The Dolphin (27 May 2021 6.03pm)
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The Dolphin

27 May 21 6.00pm

As I see it - politics aside - the PM and his Ministers are not responsible for 30 odd years of cut backs by successive Governments.
They have done a bit of course but from Blair through Cameron beds have been slashed as much as investment in infrastructure.
They all think short term to get re-elected and it is not in the best interests of the country.
The constant of course is the generally useless - but not always - Civil Service who are meant to run everything behind the scenes but regularly fail to do so.
PPE was hardly Hancock's fault.
The fact it wasn't there is the prick who didn't order its fault.
Whoever was in charge would have been hamstrung by previous mistakes and some very poor employees in my opinion.
Did Boris get stuff wrong - bloody right he did - but I defy anyone without the benefit of hindsight to have got it right.
It is really easy to throw brickbats after the event and DC looks a complete arse in my eyes.
Bile and vitriol being the order of the day.

Edited by The Dolphin (27 May 2021 6.02pm)

Edited by The Dolphin (27 May 2021 6.03pm)

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cryrst The garden of England 27 May 21 7.50pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 "In summary, little evidence seems to exist to prove the belief that the NHS is the �envy of the world�, at least if we are talking about the developed world. The UK�s health service surely provides adequate and often excellent care, but many questions remain about whether that care is as good as the standards of our cultural and physical neighbors in Europe and the rest of the world. The author believes that the British public deserves a rational debate about how best to finance, organize and provide healthcare in the UK today. [Link] Recently hmg approached the NHS to try to change things for the better. Whether that be less managers or more space, each time it is met with the bma walking around Russel Square with placards saying don't touch our nhs. Rational debate is not possible I'm afraid. It gets political as a battle is what the other side want. A shame but how it is.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 May 21 7.50pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

"In summary, little evidence seems to exist to prove the belief that the NHS is the �envy of the world�, at least if we are talking about the developed world. The UK�s health service surely provides adequate and often excellent care, but many questions remain about whether that care is as good as the standards of our cultural and physical neighbors in Europe and the rest of the world. The author believes that the British public deserves a rational debate about how best to finance, organize and provide healthcare in the UK today.

[Link]

Recently hmg approached the NHS to try to change things for the better. Whether that be less managers or more space, each time it is met with the bma walking around Russel Square with placards saying don't touch our nhs.
Rational debate is not possible I'm afraid.
It gets political as a battle is what the other side want. A shame but how it is.

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cryrst The garden of England 27 May 21 7.54pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Not so I for one saw all of these mistakes in the making, before they took effect, and stated that. Just throwing your hands in the air and saying it made no difference how things were led is total nonsense. If you lead an organisation you make an enormous difference. Our organisation kept COVID out until the final knockings. Our residents were vaccinated just before they died. They needed a couple more weeks, then they would have lived. The lack of a firebreak is what killed them. Look back at what opposition parties were saying at that time. So where was your ppe then maple. Did you have a pandemic plan? It's a bit rich blaming hmg when you failed with your very own preparedness.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 May 21 7.54pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Not so

I for one saw all of these mistakes in the making, before they took effect, and stated that.

Just throwing your hands in the air and saying it made no difference how things were led is total nonsense.

If you lead an organisation you make an enormous difference. Our organisation kept COVID out until the final knockings. Our residents were vaccinated just before they died. They needed a couple more weeks, then they would have lived. The lack of a firebreak is what killed them. Look back at what opposition parties were saying at that time.

So where was your ppe then maple. Did you have a pandemic plan?
It's a bit rich blaming hmg when you failed with your very own preparedness.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 May 21 8.00pm
Originally posted by Mapletree 10 January 2020 WHO issued a comprehensive package of technical guidance online with advice to all countries on how to detect, test and manage potential cases, based on what was known about the virus at the time. This guidance was shared with WHO's regional emergency directors to share with WHO representatives in countries. Based on experience with SARS and MERS and known modes of transmission of respiratory viruses, infection and prevention control guidance were published to protect health workers recommending droplet and contact precautions when caring for patients, and airborne precautions for aerosol generating procedures conducted by health workers. Possible if you have the tests and/or means to produce them. South Korea, Japan and Germany did. We did not. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 27 May 21 8.00pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

10 January 2020

WHO issued a comprehensive package of technical guidance online with advice to all countries on how to detect, test and manage potential cases, based on what was known about the virus at the time. This guidance was shared with WHO's regional emergency directors to share with WHO representatives in countries.

Based on experience with SARS and MERS and known modes of transmission of respiratory viruses, infection and prevention control guidance were published to protect health workers recommending droplet and contact precautions when caring for patients, and airborne precautions for aerosol generating procedures conducted by health workers.

Possible if you have the tests and/or means to produce them. South Korea, Japan and Germany did. We did not.

COYP

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cryrst The garden of England 27 May 21 8.09pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger he Labour Government of 2003 should have created the pandemic policy after the first SARS outbreak Then, should they not? a tad unfair to point fingers at the current incumbents for not having The foresight to create a pandemic policy for that. I'm also not commenting on how badly or well it was managed, more that people are quick to find blame and slow on praise for the efforts that people have made. It's very easy to say that someone could have done better. Who's to say that they could have done given the same decisions in the same circumstances. Your wasting your time mate. The anti boris brigade want to feast and now have three courses. I'm going to look back at the Cummins thread and I can guarantee every one of them slated him and his lies back then. Now it appears he's a latter day Saint.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 May 21 8.09pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

he Labour Government of 2003 should have created the pandemic policy after the first SARS outbreak Then, should they not?
a tad unfair to point fingers at the current incumbents for not having The foresight to create a pandemic policy for that.

I'm also not commenting on how badly or well it was managed, more that people are quick to find blame and slow on praise for the efforts that people have made.
It's very easy to say that someone could have done better. Who's to say that they could have done given the same decisions in the same circumstances.

Your wasting your time mate. The anti boris brigade want to feast and now have three courses. I'm going to look back at the Cummins thread and I can guarantee every one of them slated him and his lies back then. Now it appears he's a latter day Saint.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 May 21 8.18pm
Originally posted by cryrst Recently hmg approached the NHS to try to change things for the better. Whether that be less managers or more space, each time it is met with the bma walking around Russel Square with placards saying don't touch our nhs. Rational debate is not possible I'm afraid. It gets political as a battle is what the other side want. A shame but how it is. Every hospital needs a climate executive on �40-50k plus benefits and to waste millions on procurement. And I�ve heard recently they do t accept perfectly good crutches back after the outpatient has recovered. This kind of sh1t would either never be allowed in the private sector, or the company would go out of business, but it�s fine in the eyes of many public sector career professionals. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 27 May 21 8.18pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Every hospital needs a climate executive on �40-50k plus benefits and to waste millions on procurement. And I�ve heard recently they do t accept perfectly good crutches back after the outpatient has recovered. This kind of sh1t would either never be allowed in the private sector, or the company would go out of business, but it�s fine in the eyes of many public sector career professionals.

COYP

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cryrst The garden of England 27 May 21 8.20pm
Yup on the Cummins goes oop north thread, a few usual suspects raving about Cummins being dishonest and not to be trusted. Funny how he's Mr honest now. Maple even quoting camerons line about Cummins being a phsycpath of sorts. Those types can definitely be trusted surely! Just putting a leveller out there!
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 May 21 8.20pm

Yup on the Cummins goes oop north thread, a few usual suspects raving about Cummins being dishonest and not to be trusted. Funny how he's Mr honest now. Maple even quoting camerons line about Cummins being a phsycpath of sorts. Those types can definitely be trusted surely! Just putting a leveller out there!

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cryrst The garden of England 27 May 21 8.25pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Every hospital needs a climate executive on �40-50k plus benefits and to waste millions on procurement. And I�ve heard recently they do t accept perfectly good crutches back after the outpatient has recovered. This kind of sh1t would either never be allowed in the private sector, or the company would go out of business, but it�s fine in the eyes of many public sector career professionals. Persactly rudi. Too big to fail, too big to be efficient. It's all the layers of management which is the issue. Many not even involved with actual patient care. Then because change is discussed they throw their toys around. I think big bollocks are needed to tackle the NHS and I wonder if boris has a pair big enough.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 May 21 8.25pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Persactly rudi. Too big to fail, too big to be efficient. It's all the layers of management which is the issue. Many not even involved with actual patient care. Then because change is discussed they throw their toys around. I think big bollocks are needed to tackle the NHS and I wonder if boris has a pair big enough.

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Mapletree Croydon 27 May 21 11.03pm
Originally posted by cryrst So where was your ppe then maple. Did you have a pandemic plan? It's a bit rich blaming hmg when you failed with your very own preparedness. No we didn�t. WTF are you on about? We never ran out of PPE. Despite being told that Local Authorities would provide, which largely they did not. We run four homes only. Yet I did indeed write a management plan which I update every month. The plan predates the first lockdown. Edited by Mapletree (27 May 2021 11.08pm)
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Mapletree

Croydon 27 May 21 11.03pm

Originally posted by cryrst

So where was your ppe then maple. Did you have a pandemic plan?
It's a bit rich blaming hmg when you failed with your very own preparedness.

No we didn�t. WTF are you on about?

We never ran out of PPE. Despite being told that Local Authorities would provide, which largely they did not.

We run four homes only. Yet I did indeed write a management plan which I update every month. The plan predates the first lockdown.

Edited by Mapletree (27 May 2021 11.08pm)

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DanH SW2 27 May 21 11.10pm
Scary watching this timeline of events back now. Mistake after mistake after mistake that cost life after life after life. [Tweet Link]
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DanH

SW2 27 May 21 11.10pm

Scary watching this timeline of events back now. Mistake after mistake after mistake that cost life after life after life.

[Tweet Link]

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