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Mapletree Croydon 04 May 21 8.15am
Originally posted by Spiderman So you don’t actually know! Don’t let facts pass you by PP. In the UK anyone who died in hospital, for whatever reason, within 28 days of a positive COVID test, were counted as a COVID death.. fact Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.01am) Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.04am) Germany counted deaths in Care Homes when the UK did not. So the figures in FACT skew the other way. As with the UK, Germany's case numbers include those who died "of" COVID-19, and those who died "with" the disease, in accordance with the Infection Protection Act. Or as RKI head Lothar Wieler puts it, "a corona death is someone who was proven to have a coronavirus infection." Which is not the same as actually dying from it. Making Germany's relatively low figures all the more impressive. [Link]
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Mapletree

Croydon 04 May 21 8.15am

Originally posted by Spiderman

So you don’t actually know! Don’t let facts pass you by PP. In the UK anyone who died in hospital, for whatever reason, within 28 days of a positive COVID test, were counted as a COVID death.. fact

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.01am)

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.04am)

Germany counted deaths in Care Homes when the UK did not. So the figures in FACT skew the other way.

As with the UK, Germany's case numbers include those who died "of" COVID-19, and those who died "with" the disease, in accordance with the Infection Protection Act. Or as RKI head Lothar Wieler puts it, "a corona death is someone who was proven to have a coronavirus infection." Which is not the same as actually dying from it. Making Germany's relatively low figures all the more impressive.

[Link]

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Spiderman Horsham 04 May 21 8.17am
Originally posted by Orange1290 You don't know either, so we'll have to take the numbers from each country as they are, which shows Germany currently at half the covid death rate per million compared to that of the UK. Kind of fell into your own trap door there but I'm not surprised at that. If you read the posts perhaps you could point out where I have professed to know the numbers! Fell into my own trap!! Grow up. I suppose you believe that China have some of the lowest infection rates in the World
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 May 21 8.17am

Originally posted by Orange1290

You don't know either, so we'll have to take the numbers from each country as they are, which shows Germany currently at half the covid death rate per million compared to that of the UK. Kind of fell into your own trap door there but I'm not surprised at that.

If you read the posts perhaps you could point out where I have professed to know the numbers! Fell into my own trap!! Grow up. I suppose you believe that China have some of the lowest infection rates in the World

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Spiderman Horsham 04 May 21 8.20am
Originally posted by Mapletree Germany counted deaths in Care Homes when the UK did not. So the figures in FACT skew the other way. As with the UK, Germany's case numbers include those who died "of" COVID-19, and those who died "with" the disease, in accordance with the Infection Protection Act. Or as RKI head Lothar Wieler puts it, "a corona death is someone who was proven to have a coronavirus infection." Which is not the same as actually dying from it. Making Germany's relatively low figures all the more impressive. [Link] I was trying to point out that every country have been counting deaths in different ways. I asked how Germany counted there numbers. [Link] Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.24am)
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 May 21 8.20am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Germany counted deaths in Care Homes when the UK did not. So the figures in FACT skew the other way.

[Link]

I was trying to point out that every country have been counting deaths in different ways. I asked how Germany counted there numbers.

[Link]

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.24am)

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Orange1290 04 May 21 8.25am
Originally posted by Spiderman If you read the posts perhaps you could point out where I have professed to know the numbers! Fell into my own trap!! Grow up. I suppose you believe that China have some of the lowest infection rates in the World So you think that the UK is the only European country with 'honest' covid statistics? Grow up and stop defending the indefensible. Here's some more facts for you to side step that explain why Germany has managed the pandemic so well compared to the UK. "The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found." [Link] It's the reason why Italy, France, Spain and Germany, the countries with comparable population sizes but no island status advantages when it comes to controlling international movements, have all lower covid death rates per million than the UK. They've all invested in their health systems over decades. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 May 21 8.25am

Originally posted by Spiderman

So you think that the UK is the only European country with 'honest' covid statistics? Grow up and stop defending the indefensible.

Here's some more facts for you to side step that explain why Germany has managed the pandemic so well compared to the UK.

"The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found."

[Link]

It's the reason why Italy, France, Spain and Germany, the countries with comparable population sizes but no island status advantages when it comes to controlling international movements, have all lower covid death rates per million than the UK. They've all invested in their health systems over decades.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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The Dolphin 04 May 21 8.45am
When you start comparing death rates through covid you need to compare land mass as well and you aren't. We have done pretty well and our vaccination rate is up there with the best in the world if not the best. Germany are taking other EU Member states vaccinations so have a think about that. So pleased we are not a part of their mess.
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The Dolphin

04 May 21 8.45am

When you start comparing death rates through covid you need to compare land mass as well and you aren't.
We have done pretty well and our vaccination rate is up there with the best in the world if not the best.
Germany are taking other EU Member states vaccinations so have a think about that.
So pleased we are not a part of their mess.

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 May 21 9.12am
UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India [Link] Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist. It's a start. Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month. The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms. Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB. [Link] One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 May 21 9.12am

UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India

[Link]

Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist.

It's a start.

Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month.

The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms.

Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB.

[Link]

One more point

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 May 21 9.12am
Originally posted by Orange1290 And still has a death rate 20% less than that of the UK. It also has 5 porous land borders unlike the UK which can control it's international borders much more easily. What's more important, a faster vaccination campaign with more deaths or a slower one with a lower death rate? Only 20% less deaths! With a country as large as France I would have expected far less deaths than that. Guess we did better than we thought then "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 May 21 9.12am

Originally posted by Orange1290

And still has a death rate 20% less than that of the UK. It also has 5 porous land borders unlike the UK which can control it's international borders much more easily. What's more important, a faster vaccination campaign with more deaths or a slower one with a lower death rate?

Only 20% less deaths! With a country as large as France I would have expected far less deaths than that.

Guess we did better than we thought then

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Teddy Eagle Online 04 May 21 9.13am
Why all the gloom? “There is no impending disaster! There is a challenge to overcome, which we will rise to and eventually succeed in handling. Sitting at keyboards moaning won't achieve anything at all. Playing a blame game is pointless. Anyone can do that and point fingers at all kinds of things they believe have been political mistakes...We need to move on and accept what is and also what can practically, legally and morally be done about it. We need to think positively and find ways to turn what looks to you like a disaster into an opportunity. Optimism will always triumph over pessimism, given the right environment” W. Eagle - 26.4.21
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Teddy Eagle Online

04 May 21 9.13am

Why all the gloom?

“There is no impending disaster! There is a challenge to overcome, which we will rise to and eventually succeed in handling.
Sitting at keyboards moaning won't achieve anything at all. Playing a blame game is pointless. Anyone can do that and point fingers at all kinds of things they believe have been political mistakes...We need to move on and accept what is and also what can practically, legally and morally be done about it.
We need to think positively and find ways to turn what looks to you like a disaster into an opportunity.
Optimism will always triumph over pessimism, given the right environment”

W. Eagle - 26.4.21

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Matov 04 May 21 9.38am
With regards to Germanys Covid deaths whilst I have seen no serious doubt cast on how they are calculated, I have read/heard people expressing surprise given factors such as German demographics and population density. Seen it expressed that there is clearly an 'x' factor going on that will probably only come to light once Covid has been put to bed. Lets see. For the time being, let's give them the credit they deserve. Whilst not forgetting that German institutions such as VW were also, once upon a time, held up as models of propriety when it came to stats. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

04 May 21 9.38am

With regards to Germanys Covid deaths whilst I have seen no serious doubt cast on how they are calculated, I have read/heard people expressing surprise given factors such as German demographics and population density. Seen it expressed that there is clearly an 'x' factor going on that will probably only come to light once Covid has been put to bed.

Lets see.

For the time being, let's give them the credit they deserve. Whilst not forgetting that German institutions such as VW were also, once upon a time, held up as models of propriety when it came to stats.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Spiderman Horsham 04 May 21 9.51am
Originally posted by Orange1290 So you think that the UK is the only European country with 'honest' covid statistics? Grow up and stop defending the indefensible. Here's some more facts for you to side step that explain why Germany has managed the pandemic so well compared to the UK. "The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found." [Link] It's the reason why Italy, France, Spain and Germany, the countries with comparable population sizes but no island status advantages when it comes to controlling international movements, have all lower covid death rates per million than the UK. They've all invested in their health systems over decades. So where have I stated U.K. is the only country with honest Covid stats? Not sure I even said ours were honest, just said it is difficult to compare due to differing ways of collating stats. If you are going to have a go be sure to get your facts right. What stats have I side-stepped? As an island we could/should have closed our borders, something I have been saying for a year. Would that have suited you? bearing in mind you have travelled to the U.K. during the pandemic.
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 May 21 9.51am

Originally posted by Orange1290

So you think that the UK is the only European country with 'honest' covid statistics? Grow up and stop defending the indefensible.

Here's some more facts for you to side step that explain why Germany has managed the pandemic so well compared to the UK.

"The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found."

[Link]

So where have I stated U.K. is the only country with honest Covid stats? Not sure I even said ours were honest, just said it is difficult to compare due to differing ways of collating stats. If you are going to have a go be sure to get your facts right. What stats have I side-stepped?
As an island we could/should have closed our borders, something I have been saying for a year. Would that have suited you? bearing in mind you have travelled to the U.K. during the pandemic.

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Helmet46 Croydon 04 May 21 10.25am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Probably much more thoroughly. Merkel is a qualified scientist. In comparison, what is Johnson qualified in apart from being a serial liar? I would trust the numbers MUCH more from Germany than the UK based on the current administrations. Edited by Orange1290 (04 May 2021 7.43am) So you really bother me. You have nothing positive to say about our country and reading your posts just drags me down. We are all in this COVID thing and some countries have reacted better than others. Our response was initially poor and horrific mistakes were made again in the winter. There is no denying that. We have to learn and make the best of this going forwards and the vaccination program over here is a success. Hopefully that’s the start! We need to applaud our successes as much as we must be hard on our failures. Your constant negativity towards our country is simply a drag, I’ve been to many places, seen the world etc but that doesn’t give me licence to patronise or be arrogant - especially as I have no idea what my fellow fans and debaters have done, have been or have seen. Brexit is interesting. I’m rather pleased we left regardless now I have seen the behaviour of the EU throughout the last few months. I suspect that without the U.K. offering balance (and some may say being a continual pain in the neck) within the EU, then some of the smaller nations may start getting twitchy about remaining but it will be interesting to see.
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Helmet46

Croydon 04 May 21 10.25am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Probably much more thoroughly. Merkel is a qualified scientist. In comparison, what is Johnson qualified in apart from being a serial liar?

I would trust the numbers MUCH more from Germany than the UK based on the current administrations.

Edited by Orange1290 (04 May 2021 7.43am)

So you really bother me. You have nothing positive to say about our country and reading your posts just drags me down. We are all in this COVID thing and some countries have reacted better than others. Our response was initially poor and horrific mistakes were made again in the winter. There is no denying that. We have to learn and make the best of this going forwards and the vaccination program over here is a success. Hopefully that’s the start! We need to applaud our successes as much as we must be hard on our failures.
Your constant negativity towards our country is simply a drag, I’ve been to many places, seen the world etc but that doesn’t give me licence to patronise or be arrogant - especially as I have no idea what my fellow fans and debaters have done, have been or have seen.
Brexit is interesting. I’m rather pleased we left regardless now I have seen the behaviour of the EU throughout the last few months. I suspect that without the U.K. offering balance (and some may say being a continual pain in the neck) within the EU, then some of the smaller nations may start getting twitchy about remaining but it will be interesting to see.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 May 21 10.30am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Why all the gloom? “There is no impending disaster! There is a challenge to overcome, which we will rise to and eventually succeed in handling. Sitting at keyboards moaning won't achieve anything at all. Playing a blame game is pointless. Anyone can do that and point fingers at all kinds of things they believe have been political mistakes...We need to move on and accept what is and also what can practically, legally and morally be done about it. We need to think positively and find ways to turn what looks to you like a disaster into an opportunity. Optimism will always triumph over pessimism, given the right environment” W. Eagle - 26.4.21 Great post Teddy and I could not agree more. To answer your question of why all the gloom, I’d say it’s a combination of being a sore looser and unable to admit they may be wrong. Most on the remain side seem fine to except the decision and get on with life, for others, they can’t bear living with the fact they have lost and therefore find themselves in the ridiculous position of wanting us to fail. Personally I voted out, yet can see the merit in staying and also leaving. When people only see one side of an argument (however the voted) this is when I switch off from listening. As you rightly say, let’s be positive, there are challenges ahead, just as there would be within the EU, however we are more than capable of find solutions. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (04 May 2021 10.33am) "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 May 21 10.30am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Why all the gloom?

W. Eagle - 26.4.21

Great post Teddy and I could not agree more.

To answer your question of why all the gloom, I’d say it’s a combination of being a sore looser and unable to admit they may be wrong.

Most on the remain side seem fine to except the decision and get on with life, for others, they can’t bear living with the fact they have lost and therefore find themselves in the ridiculous position of wanting us to fail.

Personally I voted out, yet can see the merit in staying and also leaving. When people only see one side of an argument (however the voted) this is when I switch off from listening.

As you rightly say, let’s be positive, there are challenges ahead, just as there would be within the EU, however we are more than capable of find solutions.

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (04 May 2021 10.33am)

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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