Is it wrong to admit to quite liking Monsieur Verhofstadt?

I always found his honesty when it came to his vision for the EU and its future refreshing. Made no bones about what he wanted and always struck me as a passionate advocate for the 'European Project'.

I am convinced that if Remain has actually offered a positive vision of the EU and its future as opposed to their 'its a bit s*** but if we leave then you might have a couple of less quid in your pockets every month' spiel, then they might have swung it.

The notion of a unified European continent, with its own single market, freedom of movement and even its own currency has some value. It really does. And the aforementioned Belgian never made any bones about how much he believed in it all. I raise my glass to him on that.

Now I am sure that me and Guy would disagree on many, many things but at least I would be willing to give him the time of day based on how he championed the EU. The politicians I loathe are the ones who sort to just see the EU grow and expand its influence and pretend it was not happening or merely just window dressing and nothing to be alarmed about. Odious toads, all of them.

And whilst old GV might look like a toad, I see him as a conviction politician and a man worthy of always listening to, even if you disagree and oppose what he is proposing.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Exactly Leavers have been told many times (especially on this board) that we exaggerate the EU influence and that individual nations are free to choose their own path. However last week the EU was threatening Hungary because it doesn't like it's stance on LGBTQ rights so they do interfere when it suits.

Like you Matov I would respect a bit more honesty and a positive message on a united Europe rather than this creeping "nothing to see here" .

Edited by Badger11 (07 Jul 2021 4.07pm)

One more point

I am far too old to lose very much as a consequence of Brexit. It's the impact on the young that concerns me.

You note, or maybe you don't, that when I talk of losing it's not about a vote but about the consequences of a vote. You, in contrast, are only concerned about whether the numbers on that fateful day in 2016 stacked in your favour. For you the clock stopped then. People cannot change their minds or begin to recognise the realities of that decision.

I am not whining at all. This is all water under the bridge, but unless we start to come to terms with the damage we have inflicted on ourselves, we will continue to delude ourselves that things are going to be better. They aren't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

And yet we should leave all decisions to these baton holders.

In our system, that's how it works. It's our job to choose the best people available to represent us. Their job is to take the time to consult experts, study and understand the issues, and then come to wise collective decisions.

It's not perfect, but it's better than leaving it to the winds of fortune and the influence of the likes of the Daily Mail.

I never want to see a referendum used again to decide such a complex and vital issue. To ascertain local preferences, they are useful, but nothing more. And never binding. Only ever advisory.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Like Remainer Corbyn who spent forty years criticising everything about the EU then made the “wise” decision it was more expedient to support it.