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September 21 2021 9.08pm

Danny Mills Says You Are A Racist.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Sep 21 9.07pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

The way they behaved makes them look backward and reflects badly on them. This is especially true considering their form in this area and the fact that this was effectively 'the' opportunity to demonstrate a degree of entry level behaviour.

Most in the country won't care about how Hungary perceive our media calling out their monkey chants at fellow Englanders, because that's not really what's of note. HOL isn't the 'broad view' any more than the media is, and most ordinary people outside of it aren't factoring in a stance of Hungary being some kind of imagined white mans utopia that we must defend at all costs, when they hear our black countrymen being compared to animals.

Edited by BlueJay (05 Sep 2021 8.45pm)

Until 60 years ago, immigrants lived here in small numbers. In my lifetime that has changed, their numbers have rapidly increased and now all I hear about is what immigrants want.

One lifetime.

Whether Hungary is a White utopia or not is really not really the issue. It is more about the suppression of the majority of this country in order to secure the enforcement of a totally undemocratic policy called mass immigration.

We are being forced to swallow it, but we cannot be forced to accept idiotic nonsense like the level of importance to the average Brit of racist attitudes in a totally foreign country that the media wish us to have.

Neither should we be expected to lose sleep over a very small number of idiots who post race related antagonisms on the internet.

I have much more important things to worry about, and so should you.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 05 Sep 21 9.43pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Until 60 years ago, immigrants lived here in small numbers. In my lifetime that has changed, their numbers have rapidly increased and now all I hear about is what immigrants want.

One lifetime.

Whether Hungary is a White utopia or not is really not really the issue. It is more about the suppression of the majority of this country in order to secure the enforcement of a totally undemocratic policy called mass immigration.

We are being forced to swallow it, but we cannot be forced to accept idiotic nonsense like the level of importance to the average Brit of racist attitudes in a totally foreign country that the media wish us to have.

Neither should we be expected to lose sleep over a very small number of idiots who post race related antagonisms on the internet.

I have much more important things to worry about, and so should you.

Many of our England players aren't immigrants, so that's neither here nor there. You appear to be saying that because of the origins of black English players parents, we should not take behaviour such as monkey chants towards them or racist comments seriously or should just ignore them (while it's apparently fair game to take issue with every single facet of black players views or behaviour).

While I appreciate your wider thoughts about the disproportionate focus of the media, there's no lens through which the behaviour of these fans is acceptable, should be without consequence, or have a blind eye turned to it. Football is a global game played by every demographic going and so especially in Internetional games sending out the message that it's fine to view black people as animals is not something that is going to go under the radar. It's for Hungary to either play games without fans, or understand that it doesn't take much effort to avoid behaving like this. They're not some kind of 'wronged team', they simply are apparently incapable of behaving in a way that most other supporters are.

I'm not even for taking a knee, because I see it as being an empty gesture that achieves little. However, I certainly support it where our national team and our England players are playing Hungary because if some are so ignorant and backward that they think buying a ticket to a game involves a free go at degrading players and viewing them as monkeys due to the colour of their skin, clearly they need to be reminded that their personal reality is detached from wider realities in the sport.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Sep 21 9.53pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Some of the language gives the impression that all Hungarian fans were making racial chants, which wasn't of course the case.

Also, I think it's fair to say that Hrolf has made it plain many times on Hol that he doesn't support racial abuse from the stands.

I think it's fair that the Hungarian FA seek to stop this behaviour as it's pure yobbery and and whatever anyone's political opinion a football match should only be about football.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Sep 21 10.04pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Many of our England players aren't immigrants, so that's neither here nor there. You appear to be saying that because of the origins of black English players parents, we should not take behaviour such as monkey chants towards them or racist comments seriously or should just ignore them (while it's apparently fair game to take issue with every single facet of black players views or behaviour).

While I appreciate your wider thoughts about the disproportionate focus of the media, there's no lens through which the behaviour of these fans is acceptable, should be without consequence, or have a blind eye turned to it. Football is a global game played by every demographic going and so especially in Internetional games sending out the message that it's fine to view black people as animals is not something that is going to go under the radar. It's for Hungary to either play games without fans, or understand that it doesn't take much effort to avoid behaving like this. They're not some kind of 'wronged team', they simply are apparently incapable of behaving in a way that most other supporters are.

I'm not even for taking a knee, because I see it as being an empty gesture that achieves little. However, I certainly support it where our national team and our England players are playing Hungary because if some are so ignorant and backward that they think buying a ticket to a game involves a free go at degrading players and viewing them as monkeys due to the colour of their skin, clearly they need to be reminded that their personal reality is detached from wider realities in the sport.



This is about proportion and context.

I just don't have the time or inclination to concern myself with such relative trivialities.

We all have our crosses to bear and have received abuse at one time or another. It just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things and when you get to my age, you will see that life is too short to worry about rude names.
All of this is media orchestrated race baiting using the actions of a few idiots to stir up racial discontent.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 05 Sep 21 10.05pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Some of the language gives the impression that all Hungarian fans were making racial chants, which wasn't of course the case.

Also, I think it's fair to say that Hrolf has made it plain many times on Hol that he doesn't support racial abuse from the stands.

I think it's fair that the Hungarian FA seek to stop this behaviour as it's pure yobbery and and whatever anyone's political opinion a football match should only be about football.

It certainly wouldn't make sense that all Hungarian fans would be doing this, nor does it need that for it to be a problem. They should endevour to ban fans engaging in this behaviour so that other more respectful supporters can continue to attend and enjoy games. They lose out through no fault of their own.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Sep 21 10.13pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Some of the language gives the impression that all Hungarian fans were making racial chants, which wasn't of course the case.

Also, I think it's fair to say that Hrolf has made it plain many times on Hol that he doesn't support racial abuse from the stands.

I think it's fair that the Hungarian FA seek to stop this behaviour as it's pure yobbery and and whatever anyone's political opinion a football match should only be about football.

Reductive arguments seem to be the preferred tactic of the race baiters.

The idea that the actions of a few morons at a football match and online means that we have to surrender the moral and intellectual high ground to the most short sighted people imaginable is tragically comical.

To have to constantly condemn people who are barely worth any recognition in order to appear 'correct' really does irritate.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Sep 21 10.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

It certainly wouldn't make sense that all Hungarian fans would be doing this, nor does it need that for it to be a problem. They should endevour to ban fans engaging in this behaviour so that other more respectful supporters can continue to attend and enjoy games. They lose out through no fault of their own.

Essentially I agree.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 05 Sep 21 10.23pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


This is about proportion and context.

I just don't have the time or inclination to concern myself with such relative trivialities.

We all have our crosses to bear and have received abuse at one time or another. It just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things and when you get to my age, you will see that life is too short to worry about rude names.
All of this is media orchestrated race baiting using the actions of a few idiots to stir up racial discontent.

I think when you deem that you're not the target of abuse, it doesn't matter to you. Where you feel that the criticism is in the direction of your group then it matters.

In a broader sense I do agree that the media love to fixate on the issue and that outside of brazen examples (of which I view these chants to be) there is a lot to be said for having a suitably proportionate response. As in if someone is genuinely distressed over an anonymous twitter account in another country calling them a name, then they're not setting themselves up for the most stable or happy of futures.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Sep 21 10.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Reductive arguments seem to be the preferred tactic of the race baiters.

The idea that the actions of a few morons at a football match and online means that we have to surrender the moral and intellectual high ground to the most short sighted people imaginable is tragically comical.

To have to constantly condemn people who are barely worth any recognition in order to appear 'correct' really does irritate.

I fully concur that it does get kind of puerile when someone suggests you think differently to a situation that you have repeated the same position on for years.

While I have obvious differences with Bluejay I don't think he'd deliberately do that when it's been made plain, so perhaps something was lost in translation.

In fact, I can't think of a single poster who has written in support of racial chanting at football matches.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Sep 2021 10.24pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Sep 21 10.25pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

It certainly wouldn't make sense that all Hungarian fans would be doing this, nor does it need that for it to be a problem. They should endevour to ban fans engaging in this behaviour so that other more respectful supporters can continue to attend and enjoy games. They lose out through no fault of their own.

You have to ask yourself what kind of person makes bleeding monkey noises at a football match? And how much sleep can you lose over someone that moronic?

The relevant football organization is perfectly within it's rights to impose bans on those who damage the spirit of the game by hurling abuse. I don't see how race related abuse is different to any other, but any sort of audible or visual abuse could be grounds for a ban. I'm not really sure that banning entire crowds from matches will ultimately stop a minority of determined idiots, and there in lies the problem.

When you try to enforce this kind of rule, you can end up with egg on your face.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (06 Sep 2021 9.46am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Sep 21 10.34pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

I think when you deem that you're not the target of abuse, it doesn't matter to you. Where you feel that the criticism is in the direction of your group then it matters.

Sure, basic human nature....though perhaps it should be, 'it doesn't matter as much', rather than 'it doesn't matter to you'.

That doesn't mean that you support a particular behaviour though....and the context to each situation obviously matters as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Sep 2021 10.42pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 06 Sep 21 12.46am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sure, basic human nature....though perhaps it should be, 'it doesn't matter as much', rather than 'it doesn't matter to you'.

That doesn't mean that you support a particular behaviour though....and the context to each situation obviously matters as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Sep 2021 10.42pm)

Let's combine the two, 'it doesn't matter as much to you'. That's probably a fair summation.

And I agree certainly, the context of a situation does factor in. Such as the contrast between a ephemeral fart that deserves little attention (anonymous tweets) and something that can reflect upon a specific club, such as the vocal minority chanting in the Hungary game.

 

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