Tory sleaze part 2,783
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  Hrolf The Ganger  05 Nov 21 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Lets be honest, ultimately its all our fault because we vote for the w***ers. All people are ultimately arguing over is what particular shade of s*** they most enjoy covering themselves with.
That is the crux of the matter.
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cryrst  The garden of England 05 Nov 21 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Of course he doesn’t. He has very little grasp on how most things in the real world work. Ha ha and you don't even know me. I'm glad you don't and I know where you would be if we were going over the top so I've got a good idea what you are about danh!
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 1.11pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Lets be honest, ultimately its all our fault because we vote for the w***ers. All people are ultimately arguing over is what particular shade of s*** they most enjoy covering themselves with.
I am no expert but I believe there are different rules for each party in how they determine who will stand for election and who takes senior roles. I think the Tories have a worse history on this. In particular senior Tories are parachuted into safe seats more regularly. This must affect how they choose to govern. As posted elsewhere: The percentage of local MPs for Labour (51%) was much greater than for the Conservatives (35%), despite its major losses of Scottish seats. Seats considered safe at the 2010 general election, saw local MPs representing only 17% of the Conservatives’ top 100 safest seats and 22% for their top 150 seats. By contrast, 45% of all other Conservative seats involved a local politician. The respective figures for Labour were 58%, 54%, and 47%.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Nov 21 1.16pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I am no expert but I believe there are different rules for each party in how they determine who will stand for election and who takes senior roles. I think the Tories have a worse history on this. In particular senior Tories are parachuted into safe seats more regularly. This must affect how they choose to govern. As posted elsewhere: The percentage of local MPs for Labour (51%) was much greater than for the Conservatives (35%), despite its major losses of Scottish seats. Seats considered safe at the 2010 general election, saw local MPs representing only 17% of the Conservatives’ top 100 safest seats and 22% for their top 150 seats. By contrast, 45% of all other Conservative seats involved a local politician. The respective figures for Labour were 58%, 54%, and 47%. Wow. The Tories want to win elections. Who'd have thought? And of course. Labour are squeaky clean. Whatever!
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| the.universal 05 Nov 21 1.58pm |
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The left do something wrong = blame the left The right do something wrong = blame all politicians
Vive le Roy! |
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Wow. The Tories want to win elections. Who'd have thought? And of course. Labour are squeaky clean. Whatever! No, the Tories parachute their favoured politicians into safe seats. If they were actually good surely they would be better deployed in hung seats. The question must then be asked, who are the favoured ones? Here's a clue. Nearly two-thirds of prime minister Boris Johnson’s cabinet were privately educated, according to research. The proportion of ministers who went to independent schools is twice as high as Theresa May’s 2016 cabinet, at 64% compared to 30% according to the social mobility charity Sutton Trust. 45% went to either Oxford or Cambridge university.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Nov 21 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No, the Tories parachute their favoured politicians into safe seats. If they were actually good surely they would be better deployed in hung seats. The question must then be asked, who are the favoured ones? Here's a clue. Nearly two-thirds of prime minister Boris Johnson’s cabinet were privately educated, according to research. The proportion of ministers who went to independent schools is twice as high as Theresa May’s 2016 cabinet, at 64% compared to 30% according to the social mobility charity Sutton Trust. 45% went to either Oxford or Cambridge university. And you would prefer politicians to be poorly educated or picked from a particular section of society? Interesting.
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| silvertop Portishead 05 Nov 21 2.47pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Honestly you could just read the thread. I have respect that you are a genuine voice on the left and that it would be a fair minded discussion but I'm just tired of going over it again in any real depth. Maybe I'm just getting old. Ws all are! And I don't see myself as left only left relative to you.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 3.13pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And you would prefer politicians to be poorly educated or picked from a particular section of society? Interesting. What a bizarre comment I just said that the Government is being selected from a particular section of society didn't I? And that is something of which I don't approve. By the way, other Universities are available. I guess you wouldn't have any faith in them though. The item that makes OxBridge top is not one to do with excellence but 'career after 15 months'. Not top on criteria for entry, value added or student to staff ratio. I am pleased to state one of mine is well into the top 10, how about yours?
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| Matov 05 Nov 21 3.32pm |
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Originally posted by the.universal
The left do something wrong = blame the left The right do something wrong = blame all politicians
But ultimately the problem is that we want democracy on the cheap. We should be paying our MP's a LOT more money and drive cancers like lobbying and so on, out of the system altogether. Ditto with the financial influences of Trade Unions and the like. And introduce legislation that forbids MP's from leaving Parliament and going straight into jobs for any company that benefits from Government spending for say a period of 5 years. Human nature being what it is you are never going to completely drive corruption out of the system but there are a lot of steps that could be taken now to minimise it. Lobbying is killing our democracy. As simple as that.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Nov 21 3.38pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
What a bizarre comment I just said that the Government is being selected from a particular section of society didn't I? And that is something of which I don't approve. By the way, other Universities are available. I guess you wouldn't have any faith in them though. The item that makes OxBridge top is not one to do with excellence but 'career after 15 months'. Not top on criteria for entry, value added or student to staff ratio. I am pleased to state one of mine is well into the top 10, how about yours? Anyone can go to Oxbridge. This is a tired argument. I want the best people in Parliament, and I'm sure they are not in many cases, but that has nothing to do with education or wealth.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 3.45pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Anyone can go to Oxbridge. This is a tired argument. I want the best people in Parliament, and I'm sure they are not in many cases, but that has nothing to do with education or wealth. You seem just not to be getting this. The point is that the 'best' people often don't get a look in with the Conservative party due to the old school tie effect. The 'best' people probably went to Imperial, UCL, LSE, Durham and St Andrews just as much or more than OxBridge. But it just doesn't cut it with the old money types. So we get a monoculture of people who are probably not the best available.
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