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March 29 2024 7.20am

CONservative government incompetence.

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 01 Feb 23 10.04pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

The 45m murdered by Mao's regime would be thrilled.
Life in Eastern Europe looked a right laugh for decades. To repeat: they had to build a wall to keep people out.

I wouldn't disagree with you on that, of course, but why has the difference between Marxism, communism and socialism become so blurred?

If you think I'm espousing mass murderers (mostly of their own people) in the name of communism, you're very mistaken.

If you ask me to agree with the exploitation of the poor and weak in our society, again, you'd be mistaken.

What I would say is that there are relatively few that control the riches and resources of our society and I think that if they profit from trading in a country, then they should be expected to support that country.

Trickle down? Now that's a myth.

I want to live in a country where, for instance, even if I've never clapped eyes on you or your family, I would willingly give money from my earnings to a third party (government) who would make sure that your child has a good and free education and where you would wish to do the same for me.

Why? Because that's the world I'd like to live in. That's not a myth, that's do-able. Unless, of course, you're a look-after- number-one sort. 'No such thing as society. Only the individual and the family'.

That's not the kind of world I want to live in, mate.

I don't see how that means I'm advocating the slaughter of millions.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Feb 23 10.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

No, not insisting. Hoping that people would wish for the same as me. In fact, I expect that many in the world will continue acting and believing exactly as we have been doing. That doesn't mean I give up hope, though.

I know that many hard-bitten souls, such as yourself, also imagine that it's always been about looking after number one, so get them before they get you, always will be. Am I wrong to say this of you?

Just because it has been like that forever, doesn't mean we all have to join the hunt.

I would say that the societies that have succeeded in history and end up being admired have allowed the most freedoms and encourage meritocracy and have created high trust and competent institutions because of that .....we have seen that eroded over the last few decades.

Communism and its various forms never succeeded in creating a society that masses wanted to live under.

I think the principle reason for that lies at the heart of the left's problem....it's refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of normal human nature. When people are compelled to all believe the same things you essentially create a society that lies.

Instead of wishing to work with it there is a never ending striving to 'correct' it. To force people to be 'good', whatever that is....instead of creating inducements via meritocracy it enforces the myth of equality onto people.....it talks about better societies but ends up downgrading them and creating the fear to disagree.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Feb 2023 10.30pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 01 Feb 23 10.36pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

I wouldn't disagree with you on that, of course, but why has the difference between Marxism, communism and socialism become so blurred?

If you think I'm espousing mass murderers (mostly of their own people) in the name of communism, you're very mistaken.

If you ask me to agree with the exploitation of the poor and weak in our society, again, you'd be mistaken.

What I would say is that there are relatively few that control the riches and resources of our society and I think that if they profit from trading in a country, then they should be expected to support that country.

Trickle down? Now that's a myth.

I want to live in a country where, for instance, even if I've never clapped eyes on you or your family, I would willingly give money from my earnings to a third party (government) who would make sure that your child has a good and free education and where you would wish to do the same for me.

Why? Because that's the world I'd like to live in. That's not a myth, that's do-able. Unless, of course, you're a look-after- number-one sort. 'No such thing as society. Only the individual and the family'.

That's not the kind of world I want to live in, mate.

I don't see how that means I'm advocating the slaughter of millions.

It doesn't of course and nor was I accusing you of any advocacy of same. I was being flippant and didn't mean any offence.
I admire your principles but suppose I'm more cynical.
That being said most people are essentially decent, aren't they?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Feb 23 10.38pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

People are selfish by nature they want to do what's best for them and their family. Nobody wants to see someone else suffer and we all want the best for them just as long as somebody else pays for it (not that most people admit it).

If the people of this country really wanted a socialist utopia then they would vote for a party of high taxes and universal benefits like Scandinavia.

As the Labour party are continually at pains to point out that they don't believe in high taxes I assume they have done their market research and decided the voters are keen on paying 40% basic rate income tax.

Working for the collective good is a nice theory but it never works look at the hippy communes in the 1970's. I have seen several documentaries that interview people from that time they all say the same thing, the theory is great but too many people didn't pull their weight so eventually they fell apart.

 


One more point

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 01 Feb 23 10.39pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

I really do believe so, yes.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 01 Feb 23 10.41pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

I really do believe so, yes.

In reply to Teddy.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 01 Feb 23 10.46pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

People are selfish by nature they want to do what's best for them and their family. Nobody wants to see someone else suffer and we all want the best for them just as long as somebody else pays for it (not that most people admit it).

If the people of this country really wanted a socialist utopia then they would vote for a party of high taxes and universal benefits like Scandinavia.

As the Labour party are continually at pains to point out that they don't believe in high taxes I assume they have done their market research and decided the voters are keen on paying 40% basic rate income tax.

Working for the collective good is a nice theory but it never works look at the hippy communes in the 1970's. I have seen several documentaries that interview people from that time they all say the same thing, the theory is great but too many people didn't pull their weight so eventually they fell apart.

Correct....anyone who has taught group projects or been to university knows how it goes. Whenever there is a group project it's inevitable that most of the work is done by one or two individuals and the rest try to piggy back and do as little as possible.

That's human nature.

It can't be corrected....there is and has never been equality and society needs to reward those that strive more than others.

That doesn't mean we don't take care of our own. It just means we recognise the truths of human nature.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Feb 2023 10.46pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 01 Feb 23 10.48pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

People are selfish by nature they want to do what's best for them and their family. Nobody wants to see someone else suffer and we all want the best for them just as long as somebody else pays for it (not that most people admit it).

If the people of this country really wanted a socialist utopia then they would vote for a party of high taxes and universal benefits like Scandinavia.

As the Labour party are continually at pains to point out that they don't believe in high taxes I assume they have done their market research and decided the voters are keen on paying 40% basic rate income tax.

Working for the collective good is a nice theory but it never works look at the hippy communes in the 1970's. I have seen several documentaries that interview people from that time they all say the same thing, the theory is great but too many people didn't pull their weight so eventually they fell apart.

No, that's not a fact, it's simply either what you believe or want to believe. There are many, many people who don't belong to your definition of 'we'.

'Not that most people admit it' - well, how scientific you are, Badge.

Do you play chess? I imagine your mind - reading skills would catapult you to world champion status. Lol.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Online Flag Hong Kong 01 Feb 23 10.52pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Perhaps this attitude is why Labour are not actually liked in the north.

Many of their votes are tribal and based on disliking the Tories rather than liking Labour. Indeed, Brexit showed that loyalty to what Labour believe in is very thin.

Exactly this

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Online Flag Hong Kong 01 Feb 23 11.05pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't understand your point - what attitude, and why would that be reflective of anything to do with Labour?


Labour are not actually liked anywhere, mainly cos they're not very good.

Labour have a sense of entitlement to northern votes from the " working class ". When the Red Wall collapsed the Corbynista cohort, particularly Long-Bailey and her ilk, basically said the voters were too thick to understand what was good for them.

I agree Labour aren't very good, and neither are the Conservatives.

The problem is how get of out of the partisan political mess we are in. The first past the post system has IMO become unfit for purpose.

Perhaps coalitions would force a direction less steered by ideology.

All a bit depressing really, very little to choose between Labour and Conservative now.

The country has no more tax to give, the dog whistles of non dom status and " bankers " would do little in reality in terms of new revenue. Indeed, these assumptions assume the earnings all remain in UK to be taxed which is unlikely.

We need to look at non essential spending on vanity projects whether its a train line or a project to decolonise an author's work etc

We need a long spell of common sense in govt spending which I admit is very unlikely.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Online Flag Hong Kong 02 Feb 23 3.27am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I didn't say I was an admirer of his just to be clear.

Heaven forbid, that would risk going to the EDN naughty step and possible cancellation

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Feb 23 8.01am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

No, that's not a fact, it's simply either what you believe or want to believe. There are many, many people who don't belong to your definition of 'we'.

'Not that most people admit it' - well, how scientific you are, Badge.

Do you play chess? I imagine your mind - reading skills would catapult you to world champion status. Lol.

Where did I say it's a fact? You are reading into something that I haven't stated.

It's my opinion other opinions are available but I would say in general it's how people feel. Why do we have "shy Tories" because some people don't like to admit that they vote for a party that others consider selfish.

 


One more point

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