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March 28 2024 10.19pm

Grenfell Madness

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag The garden of England 21 Jan 22 5.25am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Developer Ballymore withdrew the application following a last-minute intervention by the London Fire Brigade.

"We do have concerns that the design submitted does not provide suitable and convenient means of escape and associated evacuation strategy for all building users," the fire service said in a statement on its website published yesterday.

"In buildings with a single escape route, we would expect the developer to have their own fire engineers provide a full review to show the resilience in the event of a fire and this does not appear to have been carried out."

Which is fine but it doesn't alter that stay put is part of a lot of new regulations. The footprint of a building will still determine how many staircases it needs. I beleive there is a maximum distance a front door can be from a staircase. This would determine if more than one are needed.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 21 Jan 22 6.18am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

The Government has now ordered the firms responsible for cladding, to replace them.
[Link]

To put things in perspective:

The building owners (Local Authorities) requested quotes for cladding.

Suppliers provided quotations based on the specifications provided to them.

It was the Local Authorities who chose the successful quotation.

The Building Inspectors (employed by Local authorities) said the building Cladding met specification.

You might be able to guess where I think any blame lies


 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 21 Jan 22 7.50am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

However - Building Control pass product use based on those products being fit for purpose by way of at the very least an Agrement Certificate but hopefully a kitemark.
If they are told it does the job then who are they not to believe the facts?
The LA's are anything but blameless but the responsibility spreads far and wide sadly.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 21 Jan 22 8.15am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

However - Building Control pass product use based on those products being fit for purpose by way of at the very least an Agrement Certificate but hopefully a kitemark.
If they are told it does the job then who are they not to believe the facts?
The LA's are anything but blameless but the responsibility spreads far and wide sadly.

I agree to an extent. Tendering for contracts is very competitive and quotes are finely-tuned. Ultimately the LA's chose the winning bid. The quotations would have contained all the relevant specifications (I would trust) for materials and works.
I don't know , but I would have thought it unlikely that tender documents would have said products were fit for purpose, unless told by the supplier/manufacturer said they were, or it was previously agreed with the client.

Agreed culpability is widely spread. Not so, the costs of putting it right

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Jan 2022 8.17am)

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 21 Jan 22 9.04am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

As others have said madness.

Common sense tells you that if a fire starts near the staircase you can't get to it then what is your escape route?

It is all well and good saying that there are fire doors* and other protection systems but what if they fail?


*Grenfall tower residents removed many of them them.

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 21 Jan 22 1.58pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


before the clamour to build an new Tower. We should remember the fallen. Surely the Tories must compensate and atone for previous failings ?

[Link]

 


the 'Net-We-had' at the Etihad....again

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 21 Jan 22 3.33pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio


before the clamour to build an new Tower. We should remember the fallen. Surely the Tories must compensate and atone for previous failings ?

[Link]

Can you clarify?

The inquiry is still going on so we have to wait for that conclusion. Compensation has been paid and no doubt there will be more to come depending on the outcome of the inquiry and liability.

Outside of Grenfall many of the other death trap tower blocks were built in Labour run boroughs so it's not just the Tories although as the current government they have to take responsibility.

 


One more point

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 21 Jan 22 4.04pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Before the clamour to build a new tower, the Inquiry findings need to be published.

I don't see the hurry in building something with , potentially, the same or similar, or worse, defects.


Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Jan 2022 4.05pm)

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag The garden of England 22 Jan 22 5.40am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Before the clamour to build a new tower, the Inquiry findings need to be published.

I don't see the hurry in building something with , potentially, the same or similar, or worse, defects.


Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Jan 2022 4.05pm)

I doubt any would be worse. Fire proofed, sprinklers and regular testing of fire evacuations should be mandatory but private residents will be under no obligation to conform to the last bit.
Or as badger says modifications to their own property is their choice.

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 22 Jan 22 6.20am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

As a slight aside, I saw an interview with a lady in the last few days. She was being interviewed at her 10th ? floor home in a tower clock that had its cladding removed.
She was saying it was now so cold, she had to wear woollen clothing all the time indoors and her electric heating bills had sky-rocketed, meaning she had to choose between heating and food. Food obviously was the priority.

And she was a medically-retired former NHS nurse

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 22 Jan 22 8.19am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

We have surely got to consider alternatives to cheap build high rise.
Grenfell tower is surrounded by a variety of low rise accommodation.
We can’t afford to build anything so by default they will be looking at cheapest option.
There is plenty of open land around the building. So far better solution would be 5 storey traditional build. No issues with cladding. Plenty of stairwells and modern methods of construction (mmc) will sort all heating issues etc.
but as always in this world the issue no one wants to face is population numbers. Turn Grenfell into a park. Enforce wfh and tighten the borders. All around Kensington there are immigrants living in super low cost clad hotels.
We are learning zero and now clearly changing zero.
Pathetic.

Edited by dreamwaverider (22 Jan 2022 8.20am)

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 22 Jan 22 8.22am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Kensington is rammed with £3-30 million plus properties all paying a pittance propert tax each year. Why?

 

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