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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 27 May 22 5.24pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Really fighting to defend your country is being led down the garden path?

Exactly. W12 is full of it.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 27 May 22 5.39pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Really fighting to defend your country is being led down the garden path?


If your country has been used by others to provoke the invasion in the first place, then yes, very much.

Given my own political viewpoint, then to see Europeans fighting Europeans in this manner is heartbreaking in the extreme. But the reality is that Ukraine has been used by other powers to prod and provoke Russia now for decades and as soon as it decided to strike, those self-same powers only helped out by way of helping delaying the inevitable.

Now I am a conspiracy loon so see this war in a wider context of a very deliberate and determined effort to destabilise the West, going on since the 'liberation' of Libya, and now the coming grain shortage is going to induce mayhem and violence that the world cannot even begin to contemplate so it all fits a pattern but these brave souls in Ukraine have been conned.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 27 May 22 5.46pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

If your country has been used by others to provoke the invasion in the first place, then yes, very much.

Given my own political viewpoint, then to see Europeans fighting Europeans in this manner is heartbreaking in the extreme. But the reality is that Ukraine has been used by other powers to prod and provoke Russia now for decades and as soon as it decided to strike, those self-same powers only helped out by way of helping delaying the inevitable.

Now I am a conspiracy loon so see this war in a wider context of a very deliberate and determined effort to destabilise the West, going on since the 'liberation' of Libya, and now the coming grain shortage is going to induce mayhem and violence that the world cannot even begin to contemplate so it all fits a pattern but these brave souls in Ukraine have been conned.

All nonsense. The Russians are the bad guys here. They have invaded another country without provocation while spewing out nonsense 'justifications' in a manner very similar to Hitler when he started invading his neighbours. All the apologists for the fascist Putin make me sick - why don't you just come out and say that you want Putin to win.

Edited by georgenorman (27 May 2022 5.48pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 27 May 22 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

All the apologists for the fascist Putin make me sick - why don't you just come out and say that you want Putin to win.

Edited by georgenorman (27 May 2022 5.48pm)


Yes, I want him to 'win'. I believe Russia has been prodded and poked by the West for decades, at the behest of vested interests, none of whom care a single jot for me and my family. I believe Putin has been the most far-seeing leader of a modern country for the last 30 years and if you actually listened to what he had to say, suspect you might end up agreeing.

But this war has broken my heart. The destruction, the sight of Europeans killings each other, people from Christian cultures doing this to each other...horrible on every level.

We are lied to in the West. About so so many things and this war has been one of them. Does that mean Putin is some kind of angel? Of course not. But he acts as he does because he believes it is in the best interests of the Russian people. Unlike our leaders. Who act in the best interests of whatever corporate or foreign paymasters pulls their strings.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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BlueJay Flag UK 27 May 22 9.14pm

Originally posted by Matov


Yes, I want him to 'win'. I believe Russia has been prodded and poked by the West for decades, at the behest of vested interests, none of whom care a single jot for me and my family. I believe Putin has been the most far-seeing leader of a modern country for the last 30 years and if you actually listened to what he had to say, suspect you might end up agreeing.

But this war has broken my heart. The destruction, the sight of Europeans killings each other, people from Christian cultures doing this to each other...horrible on every level.

We are lied to in the West. About so so many things and this war has been one of them. Does that mean Putin is some kind of angel? Of course not. But he acts as he does because he believes it is in the best interests of the Russian people. Unlike our leaders. Who act in the best interests of whatever corporate or foreign paymasters pulls their strings.

In the West you're able to make statements like this. Try being in Putin's Russia and having a daily mantra against him and his leadership and see where that gets you...

That you've reached a point where you want Putin to 'win' is unfortunate. Anyone in business or politics there who doesn't tow the line winds up dead or poisoned, and speaking out against the war - or acknowledging it even is a war - has led to countless arrests. Most likely you just like his politics and you don't much care what it takes or who is snuffed out to further propogate it. Navalny is a Russian civizen with a view on his nation too (just as you have a view on yours). A brave one at that. Has and is Putin acting in his best interests? Is poisoning and imprisoning someone for their opinion reasonable if it furthers politics you agree with? Careful what you wish you.


Edited by BlueJay (27 May 2022 9.31pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 27 May 22 9.59pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Is poisoning and imprisoning someone for their opinion reasonable if it furthers politics you agree with? Careful what you wish you.


Edited by BlueJay (27 May 2022 9.31pm)


19 years ago the US and the UK invaded Iraq based on lies. They killed 100,000's of people. NATO bombed Serbia, including full-on war crimes by hitting TV stations as opposed to transmitters. The West lied about Syria gassing its own people and then tried to bomb them, all whilst supporting Islamic extremists trying to overthrow the regime at the same time that Islamic extremists were killing British soldiers on British streets and driving cars into people on bridges.

The West has locked up people for decades without trial in Guantanamo bay. We send people to jail all the time in the UK for expressing opinions that the Establishment does not like. We spent the best part of 5 years having British politicians doing their very best to have the votes of over 17 millions Brits rendered useless.

You want to proclaim that Putin is the new anti-Christ, then fill your boots but you need to take a bloody good look at what the supposed 'Civilised' West is doing in the name of freedom. The self-same West that is still buying Russian gas and now even paying for it in Russian currency.


 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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BlueJay Flag UK 27 May 22 10.27pm

Originally posted by Matov


19 years ago the US and the UK invaded Iraq based on lies. They killed 100,000's of people. NATO bombed Serbia, including full-on war crimes by hitting TV stations as opposed to transmitters. The West lied about Syria gassing its own people and then tried to bomb them, all whilst supporting Islamic extremists trying to overthrow the regime at the same time that Islamic extremists were killing British soldiers on British streets and driving cars into people on bridges.

The West has locked up people for decades without trial in Guantanamo bay. We send people to jail all the time in the UK for expressing opinions that the Establishment does not like. We spent the best part of 5 years having British politicians doing their very best to have the votes of over 17 millions Brits rendered useless.

You want to proclaim that Putin is the new anti-Christ, then fill your boots but you need to take a bloody good look at what the supposed 'Civilised' West is doing in the name of freedom. The self-same West that is still buying Russian gas and now even paying for it in Russian currency.


I didn't say Putin is the anti christ. I offered an accurate portrayal of his conduct and leadership, to contrast your love-in - you seem not to care who he orders dead or poisoned on account that you like his leadership style and politics. He silences people you want silencing.

I certainly strongly disagreed with the Iraq war (from day one) and Guantanamo. You were commenting on Putin's treatment of Russian citizens. I stated how he actually treats Russian citizens, in Russia, who oppose him. His treatment of Navalny for instance, which is horrific. This nation doesn't have to be perfect to point out that Russia is clearly steps beyond it in the wrong direction.

As for Brexit, I voted for it... but do seem to recall that you proudly cut off many of your friends who were against the result or didn't want to accept it. Again fine then, so if democracy truly matters you to, then it would be nice if you started acting like it rather than solely demonising your own nation to excuse another when it's the focus. I've been very critical of erosion of civil liberties here. That doesn't mean I can't and shouldn't highlight a country with a markedly worse, ongoing record of treating its citizens and neighbours.


Edited by BlueJay (27 May 2022 11.14pm)

 

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 27 May 22 10.28pm

Originally posted by Matov


Yes, I want him to 'win'. I believe Russia has been prodded and poked by the West for decades, at the behest of vested interests, none of whom care a single jot for me and my family. I believe Putin has been the most far-seeing leader of a modern country for the last 30 years and if you actually listened to what he had to say, suspect you might end up agreeing.

But this war has broken my heart. The destruction, the sight of Europeans killings each other, people from Christian cultures doing this to each other...horrible on every level.

We are lied to in the West. About so so many things and this war has been one of them. Does that mean Putin is some kind of angel? Of course not. But he acts as he does because he believes it is in the best interests of the Russian people. Unlike our leaders. Who act in the best interests of whatever corporate or foreign paymasters pulls their strings.

Ironically Russia pulling the strings!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 May 22 12.27am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

To note how people's concerns and attention are manipulated look at the lack of government/media concern and focus on the detainment of Britons Shaun Pinner and Andrew Hill in Russia (apparently fighting for the Ukrainians) compared to the Iranian women with a passport we spent tens of millions on.

They may face the death penalty.

While I disagree with some initial irresponsible government comments that seemed to frankly encourage British civilians to involve themselves if we are going to spend millions taking back citizens from opponent states here are two right there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2022 12.37am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 28 May 22 5.30am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

To note how people's concerns and attention are manipulated look at the lack of government/media concern and focus on the detainment of Britons Shaun Pinner and Andrew Hill in Russia (apparently fighting for the Ukrainians) compared to the Iranian women with a passport we spent tens of millions on.

They may face the death penalty.

While I disagree with some initial irresponsible government comments that seemed to frankly encourage British civilians to involve themselves if we are going to spend millions taking back citizens from opponent states here are two right there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2022 12.37am)

well said Sir. The Iranian woman's detention for so long , was a direct result of BJ's intervention in calling her a media trainer.
And indeed, UK civilians were encouraged to go to Ukraine to fight.

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View Helmet46's Profile Helmet46 Flag Croydon 28 May 22 6.19am Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

well said Sir. The Iranian woman's detention for so long , was a direct result of BJ's intervention in calling her a media trainer.
And indeed, UK civilians were encouraged to go to Ukraine to fight.

I have no wish to be controversial here but I do know a little bit about this stuff. The Iranian Woman was absolutely prime MI6 recruitment material. Had a tangible reason to regularly visit, was absolutely deniable and seemingly intelligent. The idiot Johnson probably engaged mouth before brain and got all muddled up, because he’s an idiot. I suspect that there are a lot of dual UK/Iranian Citizens that don’t get arrested when they go back and forth to Tehran. My barber being one.

On the UK civilians being encouraged to fight - I find myself praying that, every time I see Liz Truss, she will not speak. She’s trying to be a very poor imitation of Thatcher, in my humble opinion.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 28 May 22 6.28am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Helmet46

I have no wish to be controversial here but I do know a little bit about this stuff. The Iranian Woman was absolutely prime MI6 recruitment material. Had a tangible reason to regularly visit, was absolutely deniable and seemingly intelligent. The idiot Johnson probably engaged mouth before brain and got all muddled up, because he’s an idiot. I suspect that there are a lot of dual UK/Iranian Citizens that don’t get arrested when they go back and forth to Tehran. My barber being one.

100%. And the Iranians are bloody sensitive about this stuff with good reason. They had a Colonel shot dead on their own streets only this week in what looks like a textbook Mossad operation.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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