Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 May 22 5.07pm |
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Originally posted by W12
I would be happy with that arrangement if it meant: 1. An end to mass immigration I can actually see the attraction of a dictator but I'm pretty sure they do most things in their own interest, rather than the interests of their people.
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silvertop  Portishead 19 May 22 5.07pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think with both what you find is a level of exaggeration but most of all omission. The bias most often comes in the form of language usage.....obviously it's rare that a European is ever completely objective but there are levels. It's actually not that easy to find Russian stuff unless you look for it....then again, there are pro Russian stance outlets in the west anyway like the Duran on YT. The BBC seem mostly to just be presenting whatever the Ukraine say....so we get the 'evacuation' instead of what seems to me to be a surrender in Azovstal. I don't like too much bias because I want to actually know what's happening. For me, the least BS independent commentator I've come across so far is Michael De La Broc.....he does infrequent streams on the war but their are pretty detailed and objective when he does. I'll link in his next one. There is much in what you say, but I wonder if this is partly a consequence of the open book Ukraine are giving as opposed to the largely controlled output for Joshua et al. He reports with the appearance of freedom, but I imagine his output has to be tightly self-censored for fear that Russia find a reason to boot him out. Thus, I have seen and heard plenty of coverage of Muscovites joyously supporting Putin and the war. What I have not seen - bias or other reason (?) - is any footage of Russian military activity and interviews with Russian commanders or ordinary troops, save (apparently) staged images of grateful old ladies giving flowers and kisses to very presentable Russian soldiers.
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| Stirlingsays 19 May 22 5.20pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
There is much in what you say, but I wonder if this is partly a consequence of the open book Ukraine are giving as opposed to the largely controlled output for Joshua et al. He reports with the appearance of freedom, but I imagine his output has to be tightly self-censored for fear that Russia find a reason to boot him out. Thus, I have seen and heard plenty of coverage of Muscovites joyously supporting Putin and the war. What I have not seen - bias or other reason (?) - is any footage of Russian military activity and interviews with Russian commanders or ordinary troops, save (apparently) staged images of grateful old ladies giving flowers and kisses to very presentable Russian soldiers. I don't know, I mostly try and avoid all that stuff. I want the autistic facts on the battleground stuff. I'm not really that interested in the 'goodies and baddies' propaganda from any side as I've heard all that from both months ago and made my mind up back then. I think there is a kind of universalism in war....it's inherently evil....whoever fires the bullet or drops the bomb are involved in destroying human life.....the vast majority of it will be innocent and probably involve people you'd like if you knew them dying horribly way before their time. So we can pick sides, but when you're involved it's the same animalism independent of the uniform.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| W12 19 May 22 8.14pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't know, I mostly try and avoid all that stuff. I want the autistic facts on the battleground stuff. I'm not really that interested in the 'goodies and baddies' propaganda from any side as I've heard all that from both months ago and made my mind up back then. I think there is a kind of universalism in war....it's inherently evil....whoever fires the bullet or drops the bomb are involved in destroying human life.....the vast majority of it will be innocent and probably involve people you'd like if you knew them dying horribly way before their time. So we can pick sides, but when you're involved it's the same animalism independent of the uniform. It also attracts sadists and psychopath's which I think are more common than most people would believe. Many mercenaries fit this description and they seem to have been flocking to Ukraine but especially the “ultra nationalists” (which seems to be the new media term for nazis). They are however getting captured or killed it seems. Whatever side you are on the Russians are clearly winning this and there is no stopping that whether you are told by the likes of the BBC.
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The groover  Danbury 19 May 22 8.19pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Really!!!!! Like they "won" in the north!
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| W12 19 May 22 8.37pm | |
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Originally posted by The groover
Really!!!!! Like they "won" in the north! Are the Ukrainians winning in the east or the south? Are the Ukrainians making significant gains anywhere?
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| Stirlingsays 19 May 22 8.52pm |
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Originally posted by W12
It also attracts sadists and psychopath's which I think are more common than most people would believe. Many mercenaries fit this description and they seem to have been flocking to Ukraine but especially the “ultra nationalists” (which seems to be the new media term for nazis). They are however getting captured or killed it seems. Whatever side you are on the Russians are clearly winning this and there is no stopping that whether you are told by the likes of the BBC. Yep, I think the original stated aims of Russian speaking areas being Russian controlled will be happening. However, the US clearly want to prolong the war with 54 billion's worth of money, plus Europe's contribution. I said at the time that this was a bad hand and they sure have doubled down on it. Everyone suffers the longer it goes on.....but that's the decision so we will see.
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| Stirlingsays 19 May 22 11.23pm |
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I'm hearing that Turkey demands that Finland and Sweden lift sanctions for the purchase of the S-400, and also include Ankara in the F-35 fighter program. Separately, there is a requirement to recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization. And only, in this case, Ankara will not be against the entry of Finns and Swedes into NATO.....also reports that Russia are making breakthroughs in the east. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 May 2022 11.23pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Frickin Saweet  South Cronx 20 May 22 1.53pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Zelensky is talking up having 1,000,000 soldiers at his disposal soon (we'll see if that is true in time) he has also recently replaced the head of his territorial defence force so it appears on the surface things are going to happen. I dont doubt for a second these new recruits will be fully capable & motivated infantry however they will need logistical support & support from Artillery/airforce etc otherwise I cant see them pushing into Russian held territory much, It will be interesting to see how they're utilised. fully motivated yes, but are they going to be any better trained that the Russian conscripts? There's only so much you can learn in a short space of time.
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 May 22 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by Frickin Saweet
fully motivated yes, but are they going to be any better trained that the Russian conscripts? There's only so much you can learn in a short space of time. They have probably been trained by Western 'advisors' in many cases. They will have had time for Basic training and some advanced weapons training and familiarisation but not much else. I suspect 1000,000 is a massive exaggeration but I suggest 250,000 half-decent soldiers is doable.
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| Stirlingsays 20 May 22 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
They have probably been trained by Western 'advisors' in many cases. They will have had time for Basic training and some advanced weapons training and familiarisation but not much else. I suspect 1000,000 is a massive exaggeration but I suggest 250,000 half-decent soldiers is doable. But those aren't all soldiers who want to fight is it. Late February Zelensky made it illegal for any males between 18-60 to leave the country. Instead, they must report for work at a military recruiting office. For another army to be formed it would require non soldiers to be used....in other words full blown conscription. If you don't believe in a war, conscription is state slavery that can result in death. I know of demonstrations against conscription among Hungarian Ukrainians. It made no difference and obviously there will be Russian supporting Ukrainians in the west of the country.
Edited by Stirlingsays (20 May 2022 3.08pm)
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| Stirlingsays 20 May 22 3.05pm |
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Originally posted by Frickin Saweet
fully motivated yes, but are they going to be any better trained that the Russian conscripts? There's only so much you can learn in a short space of time. Putin hasn't called for conscription. From what I've heard the Russian army is over a million and they have around 200, 000 in the Ukraine.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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