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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Feb 23 11.11am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Nobody should worry - look at Biden running rings around Putin and the Chinese. Donate to your local Typhoon fund.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.50am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Analysis from Unherd:

'One recent Ipsos survey shows a downward trend in support for sending weapons and/or air-defence systems to Ukraine in Europe, with German support falling below half for the first time (down by seven percentage points to 48% between March-April 2022 and November-December 2022) and the Netherlands (down by six percentage points to 59%).

More surprising, though, is that even among Ukraine’s loudest supporters there appears to be some degree of war-weariness: in the same Ipsos survey, there was a 10-percentage point decline among Poles supporting the most stringent economic sanctions against Russia and an 11-percentage point decline in accepting Ukrainian refugees.

According to one January Forsa poll, an astonishing 80% of Germans said that it was more important to end the conflict quickly with negotiations than for Ukraine to win. Similarly, a survey of nine EU countries by Euroskopia found that over 60% of Austrians and Germans want the war to end quickly whereas the Dutch, Portuguese and Polish are strongly opposed to this idea.

War fatigue thus appears to be setting in faster in Germany than in any other country, with public opinion hardening in recent months. Almost half of Germans (43%) now agree that ‘the problems of Ukraine are none of our business, and we should not interfere’, marking an 11-percentage point increase from March-April 2022 to November-December 2022. This may go some way towards explaining the rise of Sahra Wagenknecht, one of the co-leaders of Die Linke, who is, with some success, spearheading an anti-war movement in Germany.

Western leaders displayed remarkable levels of unity during the first year of the war. One year in, however, and their voters are beginning to be more hesitant in their commitment.'

The original article contains links to all its polls but I removed them to reduce to the length of the post.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 1.52am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 2.13am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

We live in a very different world to the one I grew up in.....it's certainly a group think one....I view it as a downgrade in truth and merit in decision making personally....We could call it the era of the midwit being in charge.

I think the sheer level of dishonesty in the political and media world has reached new levels of brazenness.

How many times did talking heads appear on the mainstream news media to tell us that Russia was losing....or that it was running out of ammo.

Why are these people allowed to say rubbish and then walk away with no accountability for talking crap.....We know why, it's because they are delivering the establishment's approved messaging to the public to maintain support for their decisions.

They aren't interested in telling the truth. I hold our media accountable for not doing their job in holding these people to account when their commentary proves to be the nonsense it is....Instead the media are just an extension of the state.....No different to Russia as far as I can tell.

All I ask for is the truth and for the people making the decisions that affect my life to be the very best available. If they feck up, they have to be held accountable.....but that's where the system goes wrong.

If they feck up, it's us who pay for it. However, instead the system is set up so that they succeed whether their decisions win or fail.....exactly as it is for most of the top dogs in the finance sector.

That's a corrupt system where meritocracy no longer holds.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 7.29am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 24 Feb 23 9.16am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

^^ In a nutshell.

The rewards for failure seem every bit as good as the rewards of success, for some

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (24 Feb 2023 9.18am)

 


"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 11.58am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

^^ In a nutshell.

The rewards for failure seem every bit as good as the rewards of success, for some

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (24 Feb 2023 9.18am)

Yep, failing upwards is real.

Who you know and who likes you is more important today than it ever was before. The political globalist class ensure 'jobs for the boys' via their institutions once their national ones are finished.

It's a serious conflict of interest as group think becomes vital to their extended careers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 11.59am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 24 Feb 23 12.38pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Analysis from Unherd:

'One recent Ipsos survey shows a downward trend in support for sending weapons and/or air-defence systems to Ukraine in Europe, with German support falling below half for the first time (down by seven percentage points to 48% between March-April 2022 and November-December 2022) and the Netherlands (down by six percentage points to 59%).

More surprising, though, is that even among Ukraine’s loudest supporters there appears to be some degree of war-weariness: in the same Ipsos survey, there was a 10-percentage point decline among Poles supporting the most stringent economic sanctions against Russia and an 11-percentage point decline in accepting Ukrainian refugees.

According to one January Forsa poll, an astonishing 80% of Germans said that it was more important to end the conflict quickly with negotiations than for Ukraine to win. Similarly, a survey of nine EU countries by Euroskopia found that over 60% of Austrians and Germans want the war to end quickly whereas the Dutch, Portuguese and Polish are strongly opposed to this idea.

War fatigue thus appears to be setting in faster in Germany than in any other country, with public opinion hardening in recent months. Almost half of Germans (43%) now agree that ‘the problems of Ukraine are none of our business, and we should not interfere’, marking an 11-percentage point increase from March-April 2022 to November-December 2022. This may go some way towards explaining the rise of Sahra Wagenknecht, one of the co-leaders of Die Linke, who is, with some success, spearheading an anti-war movement in Germany.

Western leaders displayed remarkable levels of unity during the first year of the war. One year in, however, and their voters are beginning to be more hesitant in their commitment.'

The original article contains links to all its polls but I removed them to reduce to the length of the post.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 1.52am)

War weariness was as predictable as it is obvious. People get tired of repetitive news no matter how much they care.

Putin has relied on this happening, which is why it must be resisted. The threat from Russia is as real now as it was a year ago. Their people are being told the same lies, but they too will become war weary. It's just that you won't get to see or hear it when the media is state controlled.

The politicians understand this and so whilst you can expect a growing call for a negotiated "peace deal" it seems unlikely to me that's going to arrive anytime soon. Putin won't negotiate unless he is forced to. So he needs to be forced to and that means standing firm, providing support and continuing to squeeze them, even if we go on getting squeezed too.

Maybe a peace broker will emerge. China looks to be the most likely to me. They don't want their customer's economies damaged so maybe they can offer Putin something he can use.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 Feb 23 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

War weariness was as predictable as it is obvious. People get tired of repetitive news no matter how much they care.

Putin has relied on this happening, which is why it must be resisted. The threat from Russia is as real now as it was a year ago. Their people are being told the same lies, but they too will become war weary. It's just that you won't get to see or hear it when the media is state controlled.

The politicians understand this and so whilst you can expect a growing call for a negotiated "peace deal" it seems unlikely to me that's going to arrive anytime soon. Putin won't negotiate unless he is forced to. So he needs to be forced to and that means standing firm, providing support and continuing to squeeze them, even if we go on getting squeezed too.

Maybe a peace broker will emerge. China looks to be the most likely to me. They don't want their customer's economies damaged so maybe they can offer Putin something he can use.

That is not what you said about Brexit.

However, I am forced to agree with you on this. If were to give up Ukraine in some sort of deal, Putin will be back for more.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.01pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

War weariness was as predictable as it is obvious. People get tired of repetitive news no matter how much they care.

Putin has relied on this happening, which is why it must be resisted. The threat from Russia is as real now as it was a year ago. Their people are being told the same lies, but they too will become war weary. It's just that you won't get to see or hear it when the media is state controlled.

The politicians understand this and so whilst you can expect a growing call for a negotiated "peace deal" it seems unlikely to me that's going to arrive anytime soon. Putin won't negotiate unless he is forced to. So he needs to be forced to and that means standing firm, providing support and continuing to squeeze them, even if we go on getting squeezed too.

Maybe a peace broker will emerge. China looks to be the most likely to me. They don't want their customer's economies damaged so maybe they can offer Putin something he can use.

No.

What will emerge from this war is that the policies that yourself have supported have cost us a huge amount both economically and militarily.

You seem to be living in a fantasy world about what is possible.

If you had bothered to look into this war over and above what the mainstream media and establishment have said (which has proven to be inaccurate time and time again) If you had done that then you'd realise that there isn't a way to force Putin out of Ukraine short of Nato...in other words, the US, fighting this war themselves.....combined arms.

You haven't read between the lines, I don't even think you are bothered enough to. For a landlord like you the damage from this short of going nuclear is of limited impact.....So your virtue signaling position needs to be seen in that light.

I'll say this to you again....once again. The only realistic way....other than the US/Europe fighting this war itself and WW3 is in destroying the Russian economy. Otherwise how do you stop the Russians fighting exactly? Errrr....ever considered that....They aren't a democracy and they produce far more ammo and men willing to fight than we can here.....And Ukraine has largely burnt through its professional army now.

The latest stats from Russia suggest an economy contraction of around 2 percent.....I have no pleasure in saying it but that's this war lost right there fella. It needed to be over twenty percent, not sodding two.

Not only did I recognise that all this would do was push Russia into the arms of China and create a cold war but I also realised that enough anti US/west feeling existed (for various reasons) that this would only strengthen BRICs.

All I can say is well done at another complete and utter feck up.....Compare this to your support for lockdowns and it can be noted that you are very happy for other people's money to be spent and lost forever.

I said back at the start that this was a weak position and a disaster that had to be ended in negotiation as soon as possible.....but you called that appeasement and now hundreds of thousands of people are dead when it could have ended in March/April. Anyone taking the opposite of your positions on anything is almost guaranteed to have better policies.

It's so easy for those not having to fight themselves to talk tough. Like I said back then, don't fight a war that you yourself aren't prepared to die in.

This was not the war.....but it certainly became it, because of midwit group think.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 1.14pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.08pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

It looks like the city of Bakhmut hasn't long left....probably a week, maybe two at most. It's a couple of days away at most from the last supply routes being blocked off.

It's been a bloodbath there, a modern day Stalingrad.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

China aren't interested in a Russian defeat for obvious reasons.

In my opinion, while they don't want this war to escalate for various reasons they are also very happy to see the Americans send equipment and bloat out their military budget on this war.

They have made it very clear what their own intentions are....Despite myself being told several times that I was wrong about that on here.

If I were China would I let this opportunity slip.....probably the best chance they will get. North Korea also will be noting the weakness.

Voting in Biden was all the predicted disaster some said it would be.

I can only hope we survive to see the incompetent pervert removed from office.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is not what you said about Brexit.

However, I am forced to agree with you on this. If were to give up Ukraine in some sort of deal, Putin will be back for more.

No he won't.....and I highly doubt he wants all of the Ukraine in Russia anyway.....he wants the east and south.

Holding the west of Ukraine would require an occupation by his army. Whereas in the east and south there is considerable Russian support enough to run the place.

Even though I'm furious about the policies that led to this war from here it is obvious what happens after a peace agreement.

Once a negotiated settlement is made, Nato can rearm and create its defences in eastern Europe.

China and India and the middle east wouldn't support an extended war into eastern Europe unless Russia was attacked. They all want it limited to Ukraine because of the risk of nuclear war.

Russia needs those BRICs partners and no one wants WW3 because no one wins.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 1.27pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Feb 23 1.32pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Personally I think Ukraine will throw everything it has at a spring offensive....I don't think they want to but I also think they have been told to.....mainly because the writing is on the wall for fiscal support which will only last up to the summer.

They might take some territory back but Russia can continue fighting this war for at least a couple more years. Whereas Ukraine are already finding it hard to replace their losses.

Unless Russia can be convinced to stop fighting.....and I just don't see how that happens.....people are going to come to realise just how short sighted and stupid this war was.

As said at the beginning, the Russians view this war as existential.....but few wanted to listen.

I'm already of the view that the majority of those tanks being spoken about are planned to be delivered after a peace settlement....not before one.

The US have already increased their troop numbers in eastern Europe and there are going to be military bases aplenty as this new and incredibly stupid new cold war unfolds.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 1.38pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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