Poland is in Nato. Putin knows attacking a Nato country is WW3. He will only do it if Russia is attacked by them.

That's WW3, which is why Poland are confident enough to be so bellicose over Russia......In a negotiated settlement Poland know that their forces will be in western Ukraine anyway.

I'm with Farage who was shouting about Nato expansion eastwards decades ago. In fact this war was predicted long long ago and all this 'it doesn't make sense' and 'Putin is a madman' is coming from those who don't want you looking into it.

I feel strongly because I can see that the wrong policies have been pursued and my standard of living is now lower because of it.

I support fighting winnable wars. Not getting involved in wars that require a death struggle to win and weren't necessary in the first place.

As for barbarism, from the video I've seen from this war that's just as true on the Ukrainian side as the Russian.....I've seen truly disgusting inhuman things.

The slavs are brutal.

Well, my position is essentially Orban's (who for someone who is meant to be scared of Russia isn't acting like that one bit....and frankly because he knows it won't happen)

I have no issues with Ukrainian patriots fighting the Russians, just as I have no problems with pro Russian Ukrainians fighting pro western Ukrainians....which is what happened in the 2014 civil war.

We just differ about it being our business...I would have provided humanitarian aid and re-enforced Nato countries....again, Orban's position....I supported the Ukrainians at the start of this war....if you go back to the start of the thread you can read me backing them. However, the more I looked into it and and the more I realised what this war meant.....I realised that it had to be dropped as soon as possible.

But that didn't happen.

That's because the US state department and Europe have had their claws and noses in the Ukraine for decades......This war is a complete and utter feck up.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Feb 2023 2.19pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The military industrial complex have done very well out of it.....though they know that's coming to an end as the Republicans will now look at the books.

The US strategy has been to blow up that pipeline along with Norway and then sell its energy resources to us.....So the US won the moment Russia invaded.

However, long term, the implications of creating a cold war will prove disastrous in my view.

The short and medium term losers are Europe and.....and well long term the Ukraine has been destroyed whatever happens.....Pride parades and trannies for them now.

We have gained nothing from this war....Just a lower standard of living.

Oh and now we will have criminal gangs....probably some Islamic ones, with military weapons for a very long time to come.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Nato expansion eastwards decades ago.

Or the voluntary joining of NATO for countries determined never to be ruled and brutalised by Russia again.

All in the phrasing.

I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.

I understood something of their concerns.

But it went out of the window with what he did.

Not a sign of anything like a peace conference either.

The Leopard tanks are arriving in the Ukraine.

There's another country that could use them.

Us.

I have no interest in pulling apart all the views of someone whose central plank from the outset has been the appeasement of a brutal dictator.

You seem to see all of this solely in economic terms, yet in other threads you will happily bang on about Brexit being about much more than that.

What will emerge from this war is a lasting restraint of Putin's desire to reoccupy the former USSR countries. You don't think that is worth the cost. Other's disagree.

How and when it ends is unknown but inevitably will be some kind of fudged compromise in which each side can claim a victory. Who is leading both sides when that happens is also an unknown.

To compare this situation, in any way, with lockdowns is risible. As is to suggest my support for them was based on a lack of concern for other people's money, when the truth is it was a concern for other people's lives.

I too saw the estimate that the Russian economy had only taken a 2% hit. Putin made the claim in his speech on Tuesday. If it is as accurate as his other claims then anyone who believes it is a fool. What's true is the Russian economy has been bolstered by the increased value of gas and oil, but those windfall profits are ending and Putin has fractured trust, which won't easily be repaired. Other analyses suggest that the cracks are only now beginning to show and it's this year, rather than last, when the real impact of sanctions will bite and dissent will increase. Add to that the impact of body bags returning home, which is seen in Russia but not the west, and their future isn't all sunshine and roses.

We aren't fighting a war. We are helping a sovereign nation defend itself. Not only because it is morally right to do so but because, ultimately, it's also in our own interests.

The west has no interest at all in occupying an inch of Russian territory, or in determining how they govern themselves. They might encourage democratic thought and offer encouragement to those Russians who aspire to it, but direct action, never. I wish the west would find ways of ensuring that message reaches the ears of the Russian people by it being said in speeches which could not easily be censored by Russian media. We need to overcome the way the people there are indoctrinated.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.