You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea
March 29 2024 7.52am

Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 6 of 12 < 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >

 

View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 28 Mar 22 4.08pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Got to say that with the might of PIF (Saudi royal family) behind it, the purchase of Newcastle for £300m is now looking like a snip.
With the massive credits they have in FFP they can spend the same again on building the club into a monster. They already have the infrastructure. They will be in champions league within a couple of years assuming no macro interferences like wars viruses extreme weather etc. or change of football policies. (Unlikely as the Middle East progress their total dominance of our sport unhindered).
With the current bidders, Chelsea is looking very toppy. At billion they really need some kind of state backing with where football is going.
Middle East now have PSG Man City Newcastle and they control a sizeable part of global tv sports rights.
Smart guys. Scary.

I heard they were lacking in infrastructure, like not owning a dedicated training ground or facilities. I didn't particularly look into it.

 


Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Online Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 28 Mar 22 4.18pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

If Harris and Blitzer genuinely are in a consortium bidding for Chelsea, then it’s likely that they already have a buyer/s lined up for their Palace shares.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Mar 22 6.08pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

I cannot understand for one minute, unless you are a palace fanatic, why anyone would spend money on buying 36% of the club, where you have no say on what happens and make no money from your investments

This question is the elephant in the room and it needs answering. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to answer.

Look, by and large people have always wanted to buy football clubs despite the fact that they've never made money for the buyer. Chelsea, for just one example, is going to cost some party or other a fortune to buy and even more to run, yet there are six bidders competing to jump in. Put a PL club on the market and mostly, it sells.

Based on all these long-proven realities, I think we can all grasp and accept that people don't buy football clubs because they think it's a sound financial investment on which they're going to make a profit. They know that's not the case.

So, why would anyone buy a football club? Simple. For the same reason today that people have bought football clubs since the Football League began. It used to be called "ego". Owning the local football club was how the local businessman made his mark in the community; showed he'd arrived. It was a high profile move for someone who liked a bit of show.

Now, ego is just as likely to be called "sportshwashing". Football club ownership is a brand for corporate egos rather than individual ones. It's a way companies, or even countries, or very wealthy individuals who own one or the other flex their financial muscle and demonstrate the power of their brand(s) on the commercial landscape.

Today, if you own a PL club you're not big in your local community like you once were. You're big in the whole world. You think Leicester City aren't well supported in Thailand, for instance? And that's an attractive proposition to a great many prospective buyers.

So yes, you lose cash money when you buy a club. But you get an awful lot of priceless exposure in return. Why spend your money on advertising and media when you could just own an FC instead and it'll do an even better job of exposing your brand/country/ego/company? Do you think the Saudis could buy through media channels, minutes on TV, and pages in magazines what they get from owning Newcastle United? Not a chance.

Whoever buys into Palace won't be doing it to make a profit. Let's put it this way: Had you ever heard of Facebank or John Textor before last August? I doubt it. But you have now.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
deleted 25 Flag 28 Mar 22 8.24pm

In theory if they have to get rid of their Palace shares quickly then Parish could get them for nothing

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Mar 22 9.40pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Vincehair

In theory if they have to get rid of their Palace shares quickly then Parish could get them for nothing

If that was true, any of us could. The sad reality is that you don't get to be a billionaire by giving away £100 million worth of shares in anything, least of all a PL football club.

Most likely, if they do get Chelsea and they don't have a buyer for their Palace shares already lined up (and frankly, I think it's almost certain that they do. Again, you don't get to be a billionaire without planning in advance for situations like this), I suppose there's no reason they couldn't do what Abramovich did before the government stepped in: simply assign their shares to an independent charity, foundation, or other third party vehicle until their sale was complete. It doesn't take a lot of imagination (or paperwork) to organise and we all know that what passes for "fit and proper" behaviour at PL HQ isn't much to write home about.

While if they lose the Chelsea deal I don't expect, as someone mentioned above, they'll suddenly start spending profligate sums on Palace, just maybe being having had a closer look at Chelsea's books in the due diligence process will have taught them a little more about what's needed to build a winning football club. And just maybe as a result of that, they'll become a bit more willing to step up and invest more in Palace. Wishful thinking probably, but you never know.

BTW I do think - just my own guess - that Harris and Blitzer's bid will win Chelsea. This country favours the establishment and a consortium led by a former chairman of BA and Sebastian "Tory" Coe is about as establishment as you can get.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag Living The Dream 28 Mar 22 10.22pm Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

There's definitely no coming back to Palace for Blitzer & Harris should their bid for Chelsea fail.

We can't be seen as being the booby prize.

They must have already made a deal to offload their shares whatever happens.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
deleted 25 Flag 28 Mar 22 10.36pm

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

If that was true, any of us could. The sad reality is that you don't get to be a billionaire by giving away £100 million worth of shares in anything, least of all a PL football club.

Most likely, if they do get Chelsea and they don't have a buyer for their Palace shares already lined up (and frankly, I think it's almost certain that they do. Again, you don't get to be a billionaire without planning in advance for situations like this), I suppose there's no reason they couldn't do what Abramovich did before the government stepped in: simply assign their shares to an independent charity, foundation, or other third party vehicle until their sale was complete. It doesn't take a lot of imagination (or paperwork) to organise and we all know that what passes for "fit and proper" behaviour at PL HQ isn't much to write home about.

While if they lose the Chelsea deal I don't expect, as someone mentioned above, they'll suddenly start spending profligate sums on Palace, just maybe being having had a closer look at Chelsea's books in the due diligence process will have taught them a little more about what's needed to build a winning football club. And just maybe as a result of that, they'll become a bit more willing to step up and invest more in Palace. Wishful thinking probably, but you never know.

BTW I do think - just my own guess - that Harris and Blitzer's bid will win Chelsea. This country favours the establishment and a consortium led by a former chairman of BA and Sebastian "Tory" Coe is about as establishment as you can get.

I don't know if 100 million is much to lose if the figure being bandied about as the Chelsea price is for sale at . Don't know if a 3rd party can be involved if buying another club. Abramovich is a unique situation and he isn't set to benefit financially if you can believe what is reported. April 11th is the date mentioned as preferred bidder and will one will be put forward to complete deal by end of April.
Article in the Telegraph today source


Edited by Vincehair (29 Mar 2022 8.06am)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View pstrutt's Profile pstrutt Flag Busselton, WA 29 Mar 22 2.02pm Send a Private Message to pstrutt Add pstrutt as a friend

[Link]

So Textor seems a brighter future certainly, but a 40m investment doesn't buy all that much. I guess it just ups his stake in CPFC2010 or whatever the current Holding name is.

 


So I manage a Workshop which provides a safe learning environment for blokes struggling with PTSD and other mental health issues. Being a Palace fan isn't listed yet.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View nead1's Profile nead1 Flag 29 Mar 22 2.32pm Send a Private Message to nead1 Add nead1 as a friend

Its an interesting situation that is unfolding; I think, as Syd said in an earlier post, the great attraction of Harris and Blitzer was the extent of their wealth so no risk of anything untoward happening in a financial sense - always a slight concern given the history of Palace.

Personally, I hadn't appreciated that Textor had bought 40% of Palace back last summer but it makes sense now given the investment he provided. As the attached article points out, perhaps the biggest issue now is if Parish is happy for one person to have overall control? Personally, I prefer a model of joint ownership but I guess one of the key things is how will the funds for the new stand be best provided and by whom? I had heard it stated on a recent visit to Selhurst and by someone I would trust, that work is due to start later this year. Great news if its true.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 29 Mar 22 2.55pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by pstrutt

[Link]

So Textor seems a brighter future certainly, but a 40m investment doesn't buy all that much. I guess it just ups his stake in CPFC2010 or whatever the current Holding name is.

As far as I can parse it, Textor bought 40% of the club for £89 million at the start of the season. Harris and Blitzer apparently own 22% of the club so the £40 million would not really be invested in CPFC per se (typical careless headline-grabbing). In reality it would simply be money that enabled Textor to acquire Harris and Blitzer's 22%. Or in other words, they (as sellers) and not the club itself would pocket that "investment". The £40 million is simply Blitzer and Harris' RoI on their original purchase.

If 40% of the shares cost £89 million in September and 22% are now selling for £40 million, given that the club's market value has probably slightly increased over the past nine months as a result of recent successes on the pitch, Textor is picking up the deal at a slight discount to true value, probably because buying from a partner owner eases the path for Harris and Blitzer to move quickly on Chelsea if they need to do so. In short, the number makes sense for all parties.

Having established that the £40 million is NOT really an investment in CPFC (a real investment in CPFC would be any money Textor put into the club above and beyond the £40 million he's spending to buy the shares), the key question is whether Textor becoming the clear majority shareholder (since after such a transaction, he would own 62% of Palace) is something we should be happy about?

On the plus side of the ledger, first, he seems genuinely committed to Palace beyond the club being simply an investment. To coin a phrase, his "hearts in it". Second, at least to date, he's been supportive in both operational and financial senses and has let Parish do what he does well. There's no reason to think that wouldn't continue, so he represents operational continuity at a time when continuity is good. And third, he seems to generally be a responsible executive (not a Mel Morris, Mike Ashley, or someone who seems likely to lead us up the garden path to ruin). In spite of his showbiz industry background, he appears to be a low-profile, responsible character and if you can read anything into his education, raised with conservative protestant values.

On the downside of the ledger (if it is a downside) he is most decidedly not a billionaire. His wealth is largely paper, not cash, and his net worth is around $250 million which is certainly rich by your standards and mine but it's not top six rich by any stretch of the imagination. If the financial markets were to suddenly go south for any reason, his paper wealth could be rapidly and severely compromised. No reason at present to think this could or would happen, but you know the disclaimer: your investment in shares can go down as well as up, etc. Given this landscape and the extent of his wealth, I'd imagine his investments in the likes of Palace are probably quite highly leveraged, and that he's carrying some debt. This makes him more of a Glazer than an Abramovich, at least from a balance sheet perspective.

All in all, personally I'm happy with Textor picking up Harris and Blitzer's shares when taking the above into consideration. But I'm not kidding myself; this is not the arrival of Christmas. It's not going to mean a sudden influx of cash and a wild spending spree and if, indeed, that happened it would be bad news, not good news, because the spending would be highly leveraged and as every football fan should know by now, that's little more than an invitation to trouble.

As I see it, Textor puts the shares and ownership of Palace in a safe pair of hands and it means the responsible, somewhat cautious, but effective approach and business model Parish has developed over the last ten years can be expected to continue operating much as it has done so far. That's something to celebrate.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View nead1's Profile nead1 Flag 29 Mar 22 3.30pm Send a Private Message to nead1 Add nead1 as a friend

What a great and informative post; I also share your conclusions.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 29 Mar 22 4.48pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

As far as I can parse it, Textor bought 40% of the club for £89 million at the start of the season. Harris and Blitzer apparently own 22% of the club so the £40 million would not really be invested in CPFC per se (typical careless headline-grabbing). In reality it would simply be money that enabled Textor to acquire Harris and Blitzer's 22%. Or in other words, they (as sellers) and not the club itself would pocket that "investment". The £40 million is simply Blitzer and Harris' RoI on their original purchase.

If 40% of the shares cost £89 million in September and 22% are now selling for £40 million, given that the club's market value has probably slightly increased over the past nine months as a result of recent successes on the pitch, Textor is picking up the deal at a slight discount to true value, probably because buying from a partner owner eases the path for Harris and Blitzer to move quickly on Chelsea if they need to do so. In short, the number makes sense for all parties.

Having established that the £40 million is NOT really an investment in CPFC (a real investment in CPFC would be any money Textor put into the club above and beyond the £40 million he's spending to buy the shares), the key question is whether Textor becoming the clear majority shareholder (since after such a transaction, he would own 62% of Palace) is something we should be happy about?

On the plus side of the ledger, first, he seems genuinely committed to Palace beyond the club being simply an investment. To coin a phrase, his "hearts in it". Second, at least to date, he's been supportive in both operational and financial senses and has let Parish do what he does well. There's no reason to think that wouldn't continue, so he represents operational continuity at a time when continuity is good. And third, he seems to generally be a responsible executive (not a Mel Morris, Mike Ashley, or someone who seems likely to lead us up the garden path to ruin). In spite of his showbiz industry background, he appears to be a low-profile, responsible character and if you can read anything into his education, raised with conservative protestant values.

On the downside of the ledger (if it is a downside) he is most decidedly not a billionaire. His wealth is largely paper, not cash, and his net worth is around 0 million which is certainly rich by your standards and mine but it's not top six rich by any stretch of the imagination. If the financial markets were to suddenly go south for any reason, his paper wealth could be rapidly and severely compromised. No reason at present to think this could or would happen, but you know the disclaimer: your investment in shares can go down as well as up, etc. Given this landscape and the extent of his wealth, I'd imagine his investments in the likes of Palace are probably quite highly leveraged, and that he's carrying some debt. This makes him more of a Glazer than an Abramovich, at least from a balance sheet perspective.

All in all, personally I'm happy with Textor picking up Harris and Blitzer's shares when taking the above into consideration. But I'm not kidding myself; this is not the arrival of Christmas. It's not going to mean a sudden influx of cash and a wild spending spree and if, indeed, that happened it would be bad news, not good news, because the spending would be highly leveraged and as every football fan should know by now, that's little more than an invitation to trouble.

As I see it, Textor puts the shares and ownership of Palace in a safe pair of hands and it means the responsible, somewhat cautious, but effective approach and business model Parish has developed over the last ten years can be expected to continue operating much as it has done so far. That's something to celebrate.


All these figures being banded about re shareholdings are very woolly. The press rarely gets this sort of information correct.
My only concern is that it would appear Textor was deeply in to Fubo which has suffered a dramatic drop in value since last summer. Their price has fallen from c. /share last summer to today. Market cap billion to billion. It would appear he had 10% of the stock but hopefully he sold enough to put his c. £89million into Palace. His net asset value last summer was showing at 0m. So this will have gone south since if he still has a stake in Fubo.
It would appear he is not so heavily in Fubo now but it is hard to know. I just hope he has got enough funds set aside to take us forward and also his involvement and shareholding in Botafogo the Brazilian club, but it is hard to see where.
I really hope he is on a sound footing. Only time will tell.
Firstly let’s see what Harris and Blitzer pull off at Chelsea. In comparison to Textor they have got very deep pockets. (Combined c. billion)It’s just unfortunate they didn’t go too deep into them for us. If they have to sell their shares in Palace it will be interesting to see where it goes.
If they fail to secure Chelsea then what? Again only time will tell.

Edited by dreamwaverider (29 Mar 2022 5.03pm)

Edited by dreamwaverider (29 Mar 2022 5.14pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 6 of 12 < 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea