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  georgenorman  11 Apr 22 8.36pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Yes, and they very rarely (if ever) reflect the will of the people on issues that they or those around them personally benefit from. If anything that's why they just love us obsessing over social issues. Squabbling while they make bank regardless. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 8.31pm)
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BlueJay  UK 11 Apr 22 8.53pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It doesn't really matter as "they very rarely reflect the will of the people on issues that they or those around them personally benefit from". We know this to be true. It can be seen and witnessed to be true. There will be occasional exceptions when public outrage becomes focused enough, but even that is often eventually moved along. The more it benefits them, the less they are inclined to make change. We see it with government contracts (more akin to a free money feeding frenzy), the lot really. They never lose out, they never miss out. That's for us. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 8.56pm)
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| georgenorman 11 Apr 22 8.58pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
It doesn't really matter as "they very rarely reflect the will of the people on issues that they or those around them personally benefit from". We know this to be true. It can be seen and witnessed to be true. There will be occasional exceptions when public outrage becomes focused enough, but even that is often eventually moved along. The more it benefits them, the less they are inclined to make change. We see it with government contracts (more akin to a free money feeding frenzy), the lot really. They never lose out, they never miss out. That's for us. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 8.56pm) Well, form a political party that addresses what you see as the issues and get the people to elect you so that you can "reflect the will of the people".
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| BlueJay UK 11 Apr 22 9.09pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Well, form a political party that addresses what you see as the issues and get the people to elect you so that you can "reflect the will of the people". Realistically with how the voting system works, it's a two horse race and has been for a long time. I'm just saying that with political parties it's not a matter of the voter waving a magic wand and their wishes come true. We know with issues like immigration and the like that what the voter may want, for the longest time may have sh!t all relation to what happens (due to who it benefits). The exact same with the housing market. And it also happens with financial rules, government contracts etc. It's part of the system that benefits rich individuals and corporations over ordinary people. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.12pm)
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| cryrst The garden of England 11 Apr 22 9.15pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
It doesn't really matter as "they very rarely reflect the will of the people on issues that they or those around them personally benefit from". We know this to be true. It can be seen and witnessed to be true. There will be occasional exceptions when public outrage becomes focused enough, but even that is often eventually moved along. The more it benefits them, the less they are inclined to make change. We see it with government contracts (more akin to a free money feeding frenzy), the lot really. They never lose out, they never miss out. That's for us. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 8.56pm) It's the old fool all the people line.
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| georgenorman 11 Apr 22 9.15pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Realistically with how the voting system works, it's a two horse race and has been for a long time. I'm just saying that with political parties it's not a matter of the voter waving a magic wand and their wishes come true. We know with issues like immigration and the like that what the voter may want, for the longest time may have sh!t all relation to what happens (due to who it benefits). The exact same with the housing market. And it also happens with financial rules, government contracts etc. It's part of the system that benefits rich individuals and corporations over ordinary people. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.12pm) So what's your solution?
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| cryrst The garden of England 11 Apr 22 9.17pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Realistically with how the voting system works, it's a two horse race and has been for a long time. I'm just saying that with political parties it's not a matter of the voter waving a magic wand and their wishes come true. We know with issues like immigration and the like that what the voter may want, for the longest time may have sh!t all relation to what happens (due to who it benefits). The exact same with the housing market. And it also happens with financial rules, government contracts etc. It's part of the system that benefits rich individuals and corporations over ordinary people. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.12pm) Money makes the world go round.
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| BlueJay UK 11 Apr 22 9.19pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
So what's your solution? Why does there have to be one? It's likely the nature of power. Other than more non partisan efforts to highlight specific issues or causes and keep pressing them until action is taken (single issue parties etc would fit into that too). In the big picture it's still whack-a-mole, but it's something at least.
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| BlueJay UK 11 Apr 22 9.22pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Money makes the world go round. Indeed.. that can become more extreme in some governments and countries than others, so it comes down to a matter of degrees I suppose. We can partially hold people to account and maybe not be so passive - our attitudes towards protesting here is weird compared to more we view it abroad for instance. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.22pm)
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| cryrst The garden of England 11 Apr 22 9.28pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Indeed.. that can become more extreme in some governments and countries than others, so it comes down to a matter of degrees I suppose. We can partially hold people to account and maybe not be so passive - our attitudes towards protesting here is weird compared to more we view it abroad for instance. Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.22pm) What do you mean our attitude?
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| BlueJay UK 11 Apr 22 9.35pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
What do you mean our attitude? No we shouldn't protect against everyone that upsets us, who has suggested that? We should perhaps not rule it out in certain instances though. As I say, we seem to perceive it very differently and negatively when it happens here compared to abroad.. That is something of note, and I think it's need something that has been ingrained itself us, not necessarily for or to our own benefit. Many probably don't care, many probably do. For a man in his position it doesn't sit well with many. You're a good man, but you do routinely do seem to be very unbothered by every instance of the government mugging us off (like the grotesque PPE contracts stuff etc) . A kind of 'get away with it if you can' outlook. I'm saying that the problem is it's indeed very easy to get away with it in government.
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| BlueJay UK 11 Apr 22 9.37pm |
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double post Edited by BlueJay (11 Apr 2022 9.37pm)
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