I actually agree with all that for once W12.

Religions are quite extreme and ancient ideologies at their core. A dilution of these is necessary, probably more so in this case than others, if any attempt at a cohesive society is going to be made. I also believe that people need to be aligned in what they believe/aim to achieve in order for a society to thrive. That doesn't mean you can't hold your own belief's to any extent, but you do certainly have to be active in pursuing a goal that synchronizes with one another. I absolutely despise the irony of trying to defend any fundamentalist/hardcore/extreme views via a ludicrous guise of belief and espousal of 'liberlism'.

I have no issue with Islam either, I really am to ignorant of it to criticise in too much detail, though I remain confident through my little knowledge of it and wider knowledge of religion that it can only exist in the West in a very diluted capacity and under a strong if not stronger commitment to western ideals. I have some 'Muslim' colleagues, to call them friends would be disingenuous, and my good relationships with them I would strongly insist are possible due to my very loose association to Catholicism being mirrored by their very loose association to Islam, and more so our interests in common things and life experiences as young...ish Londoners. I'm sure the day either of the two sides, or other sides, start trying to bring Bibles, Qurans etc. to any social or other occasions to preach to the others and make demands of their lifestyles, beliefs, morals, cultural values or whathaveyou, that would immediately crumble.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Slightly off topic
Years I go on here I questioned if there are levels of racism as there is with other crimes… ABH, GBH. Manslaughter, murder. Driving offences etc etc.
Apparently I can crack a racist or deemed racist quip or hang a few bloods from a tree and it’s the same. No one wants ( or is too afraid) to make the decision.
This is what mainly left wing media has done to the world or the west. Nice!!!

You seem to know more than me, I’ve already stated my ignorance.

If it does indeed say that, and individuals both accept that as ‘gospel’ and seek to enforce that, here, yes of course I have a problem with that and would happily stand in the streets with an automatic firearm to oppose it.

My belief however is whatever is written in there, and accepted as literal by some, has as much value as what is in the bible and accepted literally by some. Anyone who seeks to enforce such medieval, barbaric and flagrantly nonsense b0ll0cks is not compatible with our society from any side of the spectrum. I believe those people are at a very rare premium and those that seek to utilise ancient texts as justification for finding redemption in their miserable failures in life do so as an act of desperation to relieve their awful realities. Those who practice religion but do not compromise their aligned values and aspirations with our society as it is today I wish the best of luck but don’t want to even really hear about it truth be told, doesn’t interest me and I struggle to take it seriously. There are of course those in the middle but so long as they don’t bother me I have no beef there, whatever religion they use as justification for any act that goes against my values I’ll happily denounce and ridicule.

I feel as though I have already articulated all of that however I’m more inclined to accept failure on my behalf than shift it. My overwhelming point is find any miserable f**k probable ‘incel’ or what have you and my guess would be their justifications or motives have already been determined. The white bloke will always be a white supremacist etc and the brown one an Islamic fundamentalist etc, it’s the same fella. I just don’t think that’s a justification for blanket hatred or condemnation. I don’t mind religion at all.., just in small doses.

Please don’t bang on with the assumptions or ‘scared’ baiting, it is quite aggravating and near provoking me to real fighting talk. Also making me lose any respect I might have for any poster.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I’m really not sure what you’re asking here. I feel, or rather hope, this is a breakdown or misinterpretation from either/both side in communication.

I’ll state it once more, as best I can.

This sub-breed who stabbed Rushdie for me is the same sub-breed as Anders B in Norway. If that’s too strong I’d call them failures. They’re the same person in my eyes. That’s why the ‘scared’ accusations rile me, it’s quite the opposite I’d happily fist fight or worse each and every one, they are failures and I hold no fear there whatsoever. I’ll always speak my mind as to how I feel as I don’t believe I hold any genuine hatred or malicious intent. I’m also happy to concede defeat or be corrected where warranted or agree to disagree where appropriate.

I agree with you on the rest though so am struggling to see where the misinterpretation is. Anyone who does not appreciate our values, such as freedom of speech, all other freedoms etc and chooses to try and press their belief system to the detriment of ours really can f**k off. I tried to say that through ‘believe what you want so long as it doesn’t come at an expense to British values, laws and customs and others freedoms’ . If you don’t accept that I don’t care whether or not you move somewhere, anywhere else or rot in a nazi-esque camp, that totalitarian, fundamentalist belief, whatever it’s origins or base is, has no place in British society.

My point is that I am not trying to protect Islam in anyway, from my scant knowledge I’m not a fan, I just don’t believe, from my own life experience, that it’s literal adherence is a primary cause for a murder such as we’ve seen, I believe that lies with the individual and all wrong with them first and foremost. The secondary cause often arrives in a variety of ways, often religion and anyone who adheres literally to any religion/religious doctrines is in my books, at best, daft as a brush but the moment that starts to negatively impact others in whatever way they can do one. That’s my belief and if others disagree that’s fine, it’s very possible but it is what it is.

I’m really not sure what it is you want me to be provoked into thinking about here?

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

In short, yeah I do and I'm absolutely fine with you disagreeing with that.

The other possibility is that it has come via a manipulation, distortion or disruption in their thinking. That could be a human influence (extremist 'hate' preachers, something awful that has happened to them to malign or poison their mind against others etc.), a failure of cognitive ability through poor education/mental illness or possibly something else... injury perhaps.

I truly believe people who are happy in themselves will always look to share that with others. Those that aren't, have no fulfillment in their lives or sense of purpose etc. are vulnerable to look to either externally offload it or even have it come out sideways almost inadvertently. There's plenty of incidents that can evidence examples of this such as the bully who was bullied by his older siblings/parent or nonces who were abused themselves and so on. Again, I believe any avenue that helps them do so will always be exploited. I struggle to balance or justify the notion that someone would blow up a plane, shoot children and adults en masse or blow up a bus, tube etc. who is sound of mind. My own young life was punctuated with violence unfortunately, although that's not something I wish to provide any further detail on, but that came out sideways for me on occasions but luckily it was arrested early.

Hypothetically, I hear lots of people complain about this country for a variety of 'diverse' reasons and my reflex thought is always 'well move then', somewhat glib I'll admit. Some may b!tch and moan, some may well go elsewhere but some unfortunately actively pursue some sort of vendetta. Either way, that anger/misery/resentment lies within them first and foremost. I don't believe any 'content in life' individual would read any literature in complete isolation and go 'ah, that's the answer I'll go stab someone'. Therefore the avenue they wish to pursue has been predetermined by that individual to achieve what they had intended to do before even discovering it. If you read a religious text and think 'ah, this means I have to do x', in complete isolation of any other influence, that for me shows some fault in your understanding of it, education or alignment with your reality.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

And Clattenburg. He couldn't do anything? Yeah, right.