Who’s right Brentford or us?

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Crystal_Clear Belfast 13 Aug 22 7.26pm
Originally posted by tonymikejoe Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return. For example : Yohan Cabaye Ł10m - Left on a free. : Connor Wickham Ł9m - Left on a free. : Andros Townsend Ł13m - Left on a free. : Christian Benteke Ł27m - Left on a free (ish) : Patrick van Aanholt Ł13m - Left on a free. : Mamadou Sakho Ł26m - Left on a free. : Cheikhou Kouyate Ł10 - Left on a free. These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size. That era/policy has gone now. You see the types/ages of players we are bringing in, they will have a good sell on value should we wish to sell. And if you look at that list, with the exception of Connor Wickham (possibly Sakho), we had good service out of those players. It was our decision not to keep them on, the club must not have been too worried about not recouping a fee.
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Crystal_Clear

Belfast 13 Aug 22 7.26pm

Originally posted by tonymikejoe

Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return.

For example : Yohan Cabaye Ł10m - Left on a free.
: Connor Wickham Ł9m - Left on a free.
: Andros Townsend Ł13m - Left on a free.
: Christian Benteke Ł27m - Left on a free (ish)
: Patrick van Aanholt Ł13m - Left on a free.
: Mamadou Sakho Ł26m - Left on a free.
: Cheikhou Kouyate Ł10 - Left on a free.

These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size.

That era/policy has gone now. You see the types/ages of players we are bringing in, they will have a good sell on value should we wish to sell.

And if you look at that list, with the exception of Connor Wickham (possibly Sakho), we had good service out of those players. It was our decision not to keep them on, the club must not have been too worried about not recouping a fee.

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samprior Hamburg 13 Aug 22 7.27pm
Originally posted by YT In the last 4 seasons, Man Utd have finished (18/19 first): 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th. Hate them though I do, I would call that "top". I'd say they're a big club but certainly not a top one... and it looks like they've got a long way to go to rectify that. Which is wonderful. Hahaha
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samprior

Hamburg 13 Aug 22 7.27pm

Originally posted by YT

In the last 4 seasons, Man Utd have finished (18/19 first): 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th.

Hate them though I do, I would call that "top".

I'd say they're a big club but certainly not a top one... and it looks like they've got a long way to go to rectify that. Which is wonderful. Hahaha

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Aug 22 7.31pm
Originally posted by samprior Fair enough. But Brentford got 4pts against the top 4 last season compared to our 7pts. Tbh I think when the smaller teams beat the best teams it's got just as much to do with catching the team on an off day as it has got to do with "having a go a teams". But obviously it's nice when it happens. Edited by samprior (13 Aug 2022 7.25pm) Absolutely agree there. It is possible and what drives me mad is when we don’t even match ‘bigger’ clubs for work rate. If you do outwork them you’ve done as much as you can before hoping the luck goes your way. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Aug 22 7.31pm

Originally posted by samprior

Fair enough. But Brentford got 4pts against the top 4 last season compared to our 7pts.

Tbh I think when the smaller teams beat the best teams it's got just as much to do with catching the team on an off day as it has got to do with "having a go a teams". But obviously it's nice when it happens.

Edited by samprior (13 Aug 2022 7.25pm)

Absolutely agree there.

It is possible and what drives me mad is when we don’t even match ‘bigger’ clubs for work rate. If you do outwork them you’ve done as much as you can before hoping the luck goes your way.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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YT Oxford 13 Aug 22 8.07pm
Originally posted by samprior I'd say they're a big club but certainly not a top one... and it looks like they've got a long way to go to rectify that. Which is wonderful. Hahaha Of course it's wonderful, but what's your definition of a "top" PL club, then? One that finished fifth or better? Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 13 Aug 22 8.07pm

Originally posted by samprior

I'd say they're a big club but certainly not a top one... and it looks like they've got a long way to go to rectify that. Which is wonderful. Hahaha

Of course it's wonderful, but what's your definition of a "top" PL club, then? One that finished fifth or better?

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Qwijibo Bournemouth 13 Aug 22 8.12pm
Brentford are re-opening their academy, as instructed by the PL
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Qwijibo

Bournemouth 13 Aug 22 8.12pm

Brentford are re-opening their academy, as instructed by the PL

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mtp1958 Grays 13 Aug 22 8.20pm
Bournemouth was the same it last a little while then it goes , Brentford have a small ground and the money they spent has worked , but they never will get a big owner to take them to the next level , He is a good manager could he make Man utd play well mmmmm we never know they are a broken team top to bottom , Did Brantford finish above us NO , did they play at times negative football yes , so they had a good start can there squad back up injurys maybe not so after 2 games you cant say they got it right or wrong
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mtp1958

Grays 13 Aug 22 8.20pm

Bournemouth was the same it last a little while then it goes , Brentford have a small ground and the money they spent has worked , but they never will get a big owner to take them to the next level , He is a good manager could he make Man utd play well mmmmm we never know they are a broken team top to bottom , Did Brantford finish above us NO , did they play at times negative football yes , so they had a good start can there squad back up injurys maybe not so after 2 games you cant say they got it right or wrong

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MrRobbo Purley 13 Aug 22 8.54pm
Originally posted by tonymikejoe Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return. For example : Yohan Cabaye Ł10m - Left on a free. : Connor Wickham Ł9m - Left on a free. : Andros Townsend Ł13m - Left on a free. : Christian Benteke Ł27m - Left on a free (ish) : Patrick van Aanholt Ł13m - Left on a free. : Mamadou Sakho Ł26m - Left on a free. : Cheikhou Kouyate Ł10 - Left on a free. These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size. To be fair, a few of them (although no sell on fee) were good business. I'd say we got our money from Andros, PVA, Cabaye and CK. Thankfully the, buy at past their peak transfer policy is now behind us so we should be looking forward to becoming a selling club!
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MrRobbo

Purley 13 Aug 22 8.54pm

Originally posted by tonymikejoe

Well, what Brentford definitely have not done is haemorrhage money in the transfer market with zero return.

These incredible losses are simply unsustainable for a club of our size.

To be fair, a few of them (although no sell on fee) were good business. I'd say we got our money from Andros, PVA, Cabaye and CK.

Thankfully the, buy at past their peak transfer policy is now behind us so we should be looking forward to becoming a selling club!

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MrRobbo Purley 13 Aug 22 8.58pm
Originally posted by ripleyeagle Watching Brentford demolishing United 4-0 at half time I think they might have the better solution.They closed their academy and instead with a fantastic scouting system identify and get great players for very little money and sell them on for vast profits and go and find replacements either as good or better.They play great football don’t give the big sides too much respect, get in their faces and always play on the front foot.Our usual slow activity in the transfer market knowing full well our difficult early fixture list will no doubt end in us playing catch up again. We need to have a go next Monday against Liverpool and like Brentford stop showing too much respect to the top sides.Let’s hope we have a go at United when we play them soon while they are in disarray, but some how I doubt it. Not sure the academy closure had much to do with todays performance. I'm sure we could make the business case for our academy washing its own face. But there its definitely an interesting model to look at, scrap the younger years and focus only on the U18s. Especially as we know there is loads of good talent e.g. Eze, Olise that get dumped from other academies that we could pick up vs spending years developing them
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MrRobbo

Purley 13 Aug 22 8.58pm

Originally posted by ripleyeagle

Watching Brentford demolishing United 4-0 at half time I think they might have the better solution.They closed their academy and instead with a fantastic scouting system identify and get great players for very little money and sell them on for vast profits and go and find replacements either as good or better.They play great football don’t give the big sides too much respect, get in their faces and always play on the front foot.Our usual slow activity in the transfer market knowing full well our difficult early fixture list will no doubt end in us playing catch up again.
We need to have a go next Monday against Liverpool and like Brentford stop showing too much respect to the top sides.Let’s hope we have a go at United when we play them soon while they are in disarray, but some how I doubt it.

Not sure the academy closure had much to do with todays performance.

I'm sure we could make the business case for our academy washing its own face. But there its definitely an interesting model to look at, scrap the younger years and focus only on the U18s.

Especially as we know there is loads of good talent e.g. Eze, Olise that get dumped from other academies that we could pick up vs spending years developing them

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Daddyorc Atlantic Highlands, NJ 13 Aug 22 9.22pm
Slightly off topic, but I think our pair of (I think both 0-0) matches against Brentford last year were the 2 most boring games of the season.
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Daddyorc

Atlantic Highlands, NJ 13 Aug 22 9.22pm

Slightly off topic, but I think our pair of (I think both 0-0) matches against Brentford last year were the 2 most boring games of the season.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Aug 22 9.39pm
Originally posted by YT Of course it's wonderful, but what's your definition of a "top" PL club, then? One that finished fifth or better? I'd argue that 'top' would at the very least be defined through proximity to first place in the domestic league. I'd say top 4/5 in that instance. For a time (for me) it was almost exclusively Utd, L'pool, Chelsea, Arsenal with Spurs, Villa and Everton next but a lot further behind. Now, I would consider it as City, L'pool, Chelsea, Spurs and maybe Arsenal with the rest quite a way off. United can quite easily these days be described as a fallen giant and still look in decline from my perspective. I, for one, am delighted. I would set the metrics as: Rich Big Stadium Competing for top 4 Competitive in Europe All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons I would evaluate Utd, now as: Rich Apparently not really and even if so of little consequence. Big Stadium Yes still have that Competing for top 4 No. Competitive in Europe No All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons No Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Aug 22 9.39pm

Originally posted by YT

Of course it's wonderful, but what's your definition of a "top" PL club, then? One that finished fifth or better?

I'd argue that 'top' would at the very least be defined through proximity to first place in the domestic league. I'd say top 4/5 in that instance.

For a time (for me) it was almost exclusively Utd, L'pool, Chelsea, Arsenal with Spurs, Villa and Everton next but a lot further behind.

Now, I would consider it as City, L'pool, Chelsea, Spurs and maybe Arsenal with the rest quite a way off.

United can quite easily these days be described as a fallen giant and still look in decline from my perspective. I, for one, am delighted.

I would set the metrics as:

Rich
Big Stadium
Competing for top 4
Competitive in Europe
All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons

I would evaluate Utd, now as:

Rich Apparently not really and even if so of little consequence.
Big Stadium Yes still have that
Competing for top 4 No.
Competitive in Europe No
All the above for at least, say, 5 years/seasons No

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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EaglesEaglesEagles 13 Aug 22 9.45pm
False dichotomy OP, plus we're doing it a different way now. All those players you mentioned were signed years ago, most before Roy. I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.
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EaglesEaglesEagles