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April 26 2024 12.42am

National Rejoin March September 10th

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 23 Aug 22 11.18pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Swindy

For someone who says that they keep up with the news, l struggle to understand how you dismiss issues which have oft reported on the news as ‘twaddle’.
It is also arguable that we are all starting to have our daily lives affected in ways which they were not pre-Brexit.

Depends what news outlets you choose to believe. Takes no longer to get back through passport control than before….fact. Why should it? Procedures are no different now to pre-Brexit. UK citizens and EU nationals entitled to use e-gates, as previously.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Aug 22 11.21pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Swindy

For someone who says that they keep up with the news, l struggle to understand how you dismiss issues which have oft reported on the news as ‘twaddle’.
It is also arguable that we are all starting to have our daily lives affected in ways which they were not pre-Brexit.

How is your life affected then. Living in Bromley not much I would wager !

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 23 Aug 22 11.29pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by Swindy

Where is the history of evidence showing that going it alone from the rest of Europe actually works successfully ??

We did ok for a couple of thousand years without the help of the Europeans. In fact we had to fend quite a few of them off. Whilst also defending some that had previously assaulted us. How much history do you want?

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 23 Aug 22 11.38pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Only because our Parliament delegated that responsibility. The decision was ours. We delegated to our Parliament, and they moved it on.

The Commission decide nothing without the approval of elected representatives. They possess no independent power.

Conflating different issues, your statement is wrong and it is you who are ignorant not others.

DIPAG

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 24 Aug 22 6.34am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The EU is not a federal organisation. Each member’s Parliament remains sovereign. It has a special structure because of that. It couldn’t work any other way.

As I doubt you would want us to be part of a federal structure anymore than I do it’s important to recognise what the functions actually are and not what they aren’t.

The Commissioners don’t work in a vacuum. They work to an agenda specified by the Council, who are the link to us, the voters. The Parliament scrutinises and passes or rejects new laws. In some cases it can amend itself. In others it needs to do so together with the Council.

It’s unwieldy but that’s the nature of the organisation.

I see much greater good from belonging than not. But I reject federalism. So I hope to see a new category of membership emerge. An inner core and an outer one which is part of the free trade and free movement arrangements but which retains sovereignty.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (23 Aug 2022 10.19pm)

EU law has primacy over the laws of member states.

By what means can elected MEPs and their parties implement their policies and manifestos?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 Aug 22 8.01am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Swindy

To Spider-Man,
Read the news !!

You are deluded.

None of the problems this country now faces have anything to do with Brexit.

It is however no surprise that dopy Remainers will try to claim otherwise.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 24 Aug 22 8.13am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

EU law has primacy over the laws of member states.

By what means can elected MEPs and their parties implement their policies and manifestos?

.

Our Parliament is sovereign, not the EU Parliament. We only ever sent representatives there who belonged to our national parties, who implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU. Only if the EU became a federal organisation would that change.

I think, along with many others, including some MEPs, you misunderstand the role of the MEP.

EU law only had primacy because the UK Parliament agreed that it should. Sometimes things are more efficient when done with partners than done alone. Consider the meaning of subsidiarity.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 24 Aug 22 8.33am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Our Parliament is sovereign, not the EU Parliament. We only ever sent representatives there who belonged to our national parties, who implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU. Only if the EU became a federal organisation would that change.

I think, along with many others, including some MEPs, you misunderstand the role of the MEP.

EU law only had primacy because the UK Parliament agreed that it should. Sometimes things are more efficient when done with partners than done alone. Consider the meaning of subsidiarity.

You say our parliament was sovereign, then you say that EU law had primacy because the UK parliament agreed that it should. What would have happened if we had not agreed that it should?
What is the role of MEPs then? To provide some some cosmetic camouflage in the pretence that the EU is democratic?
I love your idea that MEPs implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU! The majority of MEPs that we elected were from the UKIP and Brexit parties with no representation in the UK parliament. Apart from their splendid efforts in helping to secure the referendum, how could they implement their policies and manifestos in the EU as MEPs have no real power and no means of enacting law.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 24 Aug 22 8.50am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

There is no point in arguing with someone who is wrong in fact and will not accept it, but is happy to go along accusing others of ignorance, it's a deluded state of self adequacy.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 Aug 22 9.05am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

.

Our Parliament is sovereign, not the EU Parliament. We only ever sent representatives there who belonged to our national parties, who implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU. Only if the EU became a federal organisation would that change.

I think, along with many others, including some MEPs, you misunderstand the role of the MEP.

EU law only had primacy because the UK Parliament agreed that it should. Sometimes things are more efficient when done with partners than done alone. Consider the meaning of subsidiarity.

Stop trying to pretend that things will remain static. The path to federalism is clear and progressive.

The only way to maintain national autonomy was to break free from the EU while it was still possible.

Don't waste my time by trying to deny it.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 24 Aug 22 9.54am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Stop trying to pretend that things will remain static. The path to federalism is clear and progressive.

The only way to maintain national autonomy was to break free from the EU while it was still possible.

Don't waste my time by trying to deny it.

The thing I never really quite understood about the EU and the wider 'project' was the smoke and mirrors they played around the Federalism goal.

I think there are strong arguments to be made for it. A genuine, Pan-European vision that people would be willing to consider. Just think about the concept. A single, political entity, from the most western beaches of Portugal, all the way up to the Sino-Russian border (and yes, I see no reason why Russia should not be included). The potential is incredible. The most dynamic, creative, Continent. A civilisation beyond compare.

If they were more collectively honest about that (and there are notable exceptions like Guy Verhofstadt) I genuinely think they would be given a hearing.

Now my own view of what a Pan-European Federation would look like is no doubt wildly different to many others but it is a debate that needs to be had and for that to happen in the open. The EU failed miserably to do that.


Edited by Matov (24 Aug 2022 9.55am)

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Swindy's Profile Swindy Flag Bromley 24 Aug 22 9.59am Send a Private Message to Swindy Add Swindy as a friend

‘To Hrolf the Granger’
Cuckoo, wake up & smell the coffee !

 

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