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March 28 2024 5.18pm

Rules is rules aren't they?

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 03 Oct 22 6.12pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Every rule seems to become more of a grey area the lower the club's annual income is. It's relatively black and white for the top six, foul against yellow card, foul committed, play on - blatant one look at again, say little. Blatant one against red card, penalty, ban.
Surely all written in the rules with PGMOL?

Are Spurs in the top 6?

 

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View iheartcpfc's Profile iheartcpfc Flag SE25 03 Oct 22 7.15pm Send a Private Message to iheartcpfc Add iheartcpfc as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

It wasn't a straight red.

Whether handball or a foul, the offence must deny a clear goalscoring opportunity for a red to be issued. Ayew and Silva were too far from goal for that to be the case.

if Wilf v City last season was DOGSO than Ayew's one definitely was. We were absolutely f***ed.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 03 Oct 22 7.28pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by becky

There is no doubt it was a straight red offence - Alan Shearer said so in his first comment on the incident on MOTD last night

So we will Palace get an apology like Newcastle did? Don’t hold your breath.
Maybe I am being paranoid but with Parish forever winding up the authorities I do worry that there is a vendetta to manufacture our relegation

 

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View West Stand's Profile West Stand Flag Dorchester 03 Oct 22 9.47pm Send a Private Message to West Stand Add West Stand as a friend

The problem with the likes of Shearer he actually doesn’t know the laws as they are today nor importantly how the refs are directed to interpret them
Some years ago the international board added the word obvious to the bit about denying a goal opportunity and it’s the bit Gallagher talked about as to why he thought a yellow was correct and to be honest so do I

It was a significant distance from goal
The ball wasn’t travelling in the direction of the goal
There were several defenders close by which added to the subjectivity

For a handball to be given it has to in most circumstances be deliberate so he ain’t gonna get sent off for that(A handball doesn’t have to be deliberate if it immediately leads to another player scoring)
Getting two yellows could happen in the same phase of play but not for two non technical offences
VAR wasn’t any fall back because there really wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake by the on field official.


 

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View West Stand's Profile West Stand Flag Dorchester 03 Oct 22 9.48pm Send a Private Message to West Stand Add West Stand as a friend

Originally posted by West Stand

The problem with the likes of Shearer he actually doesn’t know the laws as they are today nor importantly how the refs are directed to interpret them
Some years ago the international board added the word obvious to the bit about denying a goal opportunity and it’s the bit Gallagher talked about as to why he thought a yellow was correct and to be honest so do I

It was a significant distance from goal
The ball wasn’t travelling in the direction of the goal
There were several defenders close by which added to the subjectivity

For a handball to be given it has to in most circumstances be deliberate so he ain’t gonna get sent off for that(A handball doesn’t have to be deliberate if it immediately leads to another player scoring)
Getting two yellows could happen in the same phase of play but not for two non technical offences
VAR wasn’t any fall back because there really wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake by the on field official.


 

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View Vaibow's Profile Vaibow Flag vancouver/croydon 04 Oct 22 1.51am Send a Private Message to Vaibow Add Vaibow as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

It wasn't a straight red.

Whether handball or a foul, the offence must deny a clear goalscoring opportunity for a red to be issued. Ayew and Silva were too far from goal for that to be the case.

Nonsense, when silva goes down, if he doesn't hand ball it, it's one on one with the keeper and the striker can either take a shot... score a worldie, or take on the keeper, draw him out etc, there was no evidence to suggest he be caught up in that moment...

 


This was once a quality forum....

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View West Stand's Profile West Stand Flag Dorchester 04 Oct 22 7.54am Send a Private Message to West Stand Add West Stand as a friend

Originally posted by Vaibow

Nonsense, when silva goes down, if he doesn't hand ball it, it's one on one with the keeper and the striker can either take a shot... score a worldie, or take on the keeper, draw him out etc, there was no evidence to suggest he be caught up in that moment...


As I pointed out it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity the difference it has to be a clear not just an opportunity. The direction of the ball was away from goal and the argument would be that Chelsea had players in a position to cover. Chillwell for instance .

For me the subjective nature of the offence makes it the sort of call that you need to really drill down to what refs are told to factor in and distance alone from goal puts a big question mark into the equation but when you then factor in the direction the ball takes those two alone raise two big questions and unless the ref is 100% sure they simply won’t send a player off


 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 04 Oct 22 7.58am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by West Stand


As I pointed out it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity the difference it has to be a clear not just an opportunity. The direction of the ball was away from goal and the argument would be that Chelsea had players in a position to cover. Chillwell for instance .

For me the subjective nature of the offence makes it the sort of call that you need to really drill down to what refs are told to factor in and distance alone from goal puts a big question mark into the equation but when you then factor in the direction the ball takes those two alone raise two big questions and unless the ref is 100% sure they simply won’t send a player off


As many fans have noticed, it also depends on which team the offender plays for.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 7.59am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Always very easy to get caught in the bias of decisions like this when your own team are involved.

I saw it quite close on the day and was utterly convinced that were the roles reversed and it was a Palace player who'd done that, I'd still maintain you could see the two players were a fair distance from the rest of them on the pitch, it wasn't that far from goal, one was lying down having lost the ball and slapped the ball so blatantly away from an attacker about to take it in is his stride so therefore, were it say Guehi who did so, I would have thought 'oh bo!!ocks, that's a red card without any question'.

Having watched replays, it looks even worse than it did live. I cannot fathom any football fan who would watch that and not think 'the player's through on goal there' and with any 'attacking' player in a now well established PL side, you'd describe the situation as an 'obvious goal scoring opportunity'. If that is not then what is?

Edited by Nicholas91 (04 Oct 2022 8.01am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View berlinpalace's Profile berlinpalace Flag berlin 04 Oct 22 8.35am Send a Private Message to berlinpalace Add berlinpalace as a friend

Originally posted by West Stand


As I pointed out it has to be a clear goal scoring opportunity the difference it has to be a clear not just an opportunity. The direction of the ball was away from goal and the argument would be that Chelsea had players in a position to cover. Chillwell for instance .

For me the subjective nature of the offence makes it the sort of call that you need to really drill down to what refs are told to factor in and distance alone from goal puts a big question mark into the equation but when you then factor in the direction the ball takes those two alone raise two big questions and unless the ref is 100% sure they simply won’t send a player off


The only reason the ball was going away from goal was because Silva punched it and Chilwell was something like 20 metres away and with the angle he would not have gotten to Ayew before he was in the penalty area, all the other defenders were starting well behind Ayew and can be ignored.

 

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View West Stand's Profile West Stand Flag Dorchester 04 Oct 22 8.39am Send a Private Message to West Stand Add West Stand as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Always very easy to get caught in the bias of decisions like this when your own team are involved.

I saw it quite close on the day and was utterly convinced that were the roles reversed and it was a Palace player who'd done that, I'd still maintain you could see the two players were a fair distance from the rest of them on the pitch, it wasn't that far from goal, one was lying down having lost the ball and slapped the ball so blatantly away from an attacker about to take it in is his stride so therefore, were it say Guehi who did so, I would have thought 'oh bo!!ocks, that's a red card without any question'.

Having watched replays, it looks even worse than it did live. I cannot fathom any football fan who would watch that and not think 'the player's through on goal there' and with any 'attacking' player in a now well established PL side, you'd describe the situation as an 'obvious goal scoring opportunity'. If that is not then what is?

Edited by Nicholas91 (04 Oct 2022 8.01am)

The interesting thing here is if the ref thought there was a “ clear goal scoring opportunity “ he almost probably would have played advantage. The fact he blew suggests that he didn’t.
Interestingly if he had played advantage irrespective of the outcome of that phase of play Silva couldn’t have been sanctioned
Irrespective heres what refs are told to factor into such incidents point one and two are the two that would tip it in my opinion

1: The distance between the offence and the goal. The closer it is to the penalty and goal areas the more likely the criteria would be satisfied. It’s not only the proximity, but also the area of the pitch, centrally in and around the penalty area is likely to satisfy the criteria, being right out on a touchline near the corner for example wouldn’t.

2: The general direction of play. If the striker has his back to goal or is side on looking to play the ball to an opponent then it will not fit the criteria for DOGSO. He needs to be in a position to be able to be about to take a shot or in the process of lining up a shot.

3: Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball. This can be applied equally to the striker and to the defender. In relation to the striker, he does not have to have the ball actually at his feet, he could be running onto a pass from a team mate that, without the action of the defender/goalkeeper, he would have collected and had a shot on target, for example. In relation to the defender he needs to have a chance of winning the ball, for example by a clean, well timed tackle. If the striker has got away from the defender and the only means to stop him getting a shot away is to push him over or pull him back then the defender does not have any possibility of playing the ball and therefore no chance of “gaining control of the ball”.

4: The location and number of other defenders, which includes the goalkeeper. There is no set distance specified but the general rule is that if there is a covering defender or goalkeeper within range to make a tackle then the criteria for DOGSO are unlikely to be met. If the goalkeeper is stranded, has already committed to diving one way, leaving the player the opportunity to chip over him or shoot the other side of him or is the player making a last ditch tackle then the DOGSO criteria is liable to be met. If another defender, including the goalkeeper is in a close enough position to make a lawful tackle or attempt a save then the criteria will not be met.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 8.44am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by West Stand

The interesting thing here is if the ref thought there was a “ clear goal scoring opportunity “ he almost probably would have played advantage. The fact he blew suggests that he didn’t.
Interestingly if he had played advantage irrespective of the outcome of that phase of play Silva couldn’t have been sanctioned
Irrespective heres what refs are told to factor into such incidents point one and two are the two that would tip it in my opinion

1: The distance between the offence and the goal. The closer it is to the penalty and goal areas the more likely the criteria would be satisfied. It’s not only the proximity, but also the area of the pitch, centrally in and around the penalty area is likely to satisfy the criteria, being right out on a touchline near the corner for example wouldn’t.

2: The general direction of play. If the striker has his back to goal or is side on looking to play the ball to an opponent then it will not fit the criteria for DOGSO. He needs to be in a position to be able to be about to take a shot or in the process of lining up a shot.

3: Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball. This can be applied equally to the striker and to the defender. In relation to the striker, he does not have to have the ball actually at his feet, he could be running onto a pass from a team mate that, without the action of the defender/goalkeeper, he would have collected and had a shot on target, for example. In relation to the defender he needs to have a chance of winning the ball, for example by a clean, well timed tackle. If the striker has got away from the defender and the only means to stop him getting a shot away is to push him over or pull him back then the defender does not have any possibility of playing the ball and therefore no chance of “gaining control of the ball”.

4: The location and number of other defenders, which includes the goalkeeper. There is no set distance specified but the general rule is that if there is a covering defender or goalkeeper within range to make a tackle then the criteria for DOGSO are unlikely to be met. If the goalkeeper is stranded, has already committed to diving one way, leaving the player the opportunity to chip over him or shoot the other side of him or is the player making a last ditch tackle then the DOGSO criteria is liable to be met. If another defender, including the goalkeeper is in a close enough position to make a lawful tackle or attempt a save then the criteria will not be met.

He couldn't play an advantage as Silva had played the ball with his hand denying the opportunity, that's the point. He slapped the ball when Ayew had it at his feet, going towards goal!! He denied Ayew the opportunity to bear down on goal for a 1:1. That's denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity lol FFS.

There's no grey here. Silva did what he did as he knew full well that is was a clear goal scoring opportunity, no other reason.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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