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March 28 2024 11.27pm

Lessons learnt?

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 28 Dec 22 11.12am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Tickled pink

Ayew has tons of vital experience which he uses well, Olise has none whatsoever and many teams are able to nullify him very easily, he needs to be introduced into a game to build up his experience and then confidence, we are running the huge risk of destroying him.
Exactly the same for Eze.

Edited by Tickled pink (28 Dec 2022 10.47am)


Yep I’m inclined to agree there too.

We seem to be lacking a real spine to our team, offering stability, consistency and a platform on which our ‘flair’ players can shine. Take Marc away and we saw what catastrophe that can bring.

I still think we desperately need that in midfield and probably at CF too. Should be our priority if… IF any more playing staff come in. A RB and additional winger would be nice but not the priority for me.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View CPFC Dartford's Profile CPFC Dartford Flag Dartford 28 Dec 22 11.19am Send a Private Message to CPFC Dartford Add CPFC Dartford as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

I will try and make this a considered post rather than an angry rant, but I am having my doubts about Vieira’s judgement over some aspects of our play.
I’m not calling for his head and like him as person and acknowledge he is trying to stick to certain football principles.
However, in my view the way we are setting up is not getting the best of our resources.
The very talented Eze and Olise appear to be luxury players as there is nobody to win the ball for them and they drift aimlessly around midfield having no influence on the game.
This results with us being dominated in midfield and if Doucoure is pressed in deep midfield we are unable to start any moves.
The only outlet is the long pass from Anderson.
This means Zaha is isolated when playing down the middle chasing lost causes and having zero impact on proceedings.
When it’s clear the tactics are not working (as in today and v Forest) I can’t understand why Vieira does not react and make changes.
If the players are not following instructions change them for those who will follow them.
If the players are not capable of performing in line with the tactics, change the tactics to suit them.
It doesn’t seem like rocket science.

Excellent analysis. I think the problem Vieira has is that it sometimes works. Away at West Ham only 3 games ago I thought was one of our best displays for years. The same tactics obviously didn’t work against Forest or Fulham though.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 28 Dec 22 1.46pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by CPFC Dartford

Excellent analysis. I think the problem Vieira has is that it sometimes works. Away at West Ham only 3 games ago I thought was one of our best displays for years. The same tactics obviously didn’t work against Forest or Fulham though.

We struggle against teams who dominate the midfield and harass our back 4. We panic against such tactics which causes our ‘luxury players’ to play deeper and deeper until they become ineffective. Look at the last two games, we just could not get on the front foot.

Personally I think it’s time to go back to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 so we can compete better in the competitive areas. We also need to make sure we pick the players capable of competing.

On the plus side, when the so called better teams sit off us, we actually look far better as a team and cause more problems.

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 28 Dec 22 1.47pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by CPFC Dartford

Excellent analysis. I think the problem Vieira has is that it sometimes works. Away at West Ham only 3 games ago I thought was one of our best displays for years. The same tactics obviously didn’t work against Forest or Fulham though.

Forest play a completely different game to West Ham who like us want to pass and move the ball into the net, only difference being we do it wearing ballet shoes, Forest did a Morocco against us and we as we are at the moment haven't a clue what to do when the opposition is in our face. Fulham were hugely helped by the red card because it ruined any possible come back we've all seen in the second half of games.

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 28 Dec 22 1.49pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

We struggle against teams who dominate the midfield and harass our back 4. We panic against such tactics which causes our ‘luxury players’ to play deeper and deeper until they become ineffective. Look at the last two games, we just could not get on the front foot.

Personally I think it’s time to go back to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 so we can compete better in the competitive areas. We also need to make sure we pick the players capable of competing.

On the plus side, when the so called better teams sit off us, we actually look far better as a team and cause more problems.

Correct.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 28 Dec 22 6.34pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

We struggle against teams who dominate the midfield and harass our back 4. We panic against such tactics which causes our ‘luxury players’ to play deeper and deeper until they become ineffective. Look at the last two games, we just could not get on the front foot.

Personally I think it’s time to go back to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 so we can compete better in the competitive areas. We also need to make sure we pick the players capable of competing.

On the plus side, when the so called better teams sit off us, we actually look far better as a team and cause more problems.

Yes, I've thought that 4-3-3 is a dubious system, particularly with the players we have. The opposition seems to have figured out that pressing our thin midfield will lead to dominating the ball in a key area, and of course , they are right. It takes Zaha, Eze, and Olise out of the game, and they tend to drift around aimlessly without the ball at their feet anyway. I feel confident in what I say is accurate, because we weren't so easy to roll over in midfield when Kouyate, Gallagher, and McArthur were playing, they being the more battling, tackling types.

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 28 Dec 22 7.54pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Some sobering 22-23 stats from the Premier League site considering our progressive style;
Shots on target 19th
Big Chances missed 19th
Through balls 19th
Crosses 20th

However, a heady 8th for backwards passes, 3rd for counter attacking goals and league leaders for number of times dispossessed.

Mean nothing in isolation I guess but wonder what the club’s analysts make of that one.

In fairness to Vieira I’ve heard him bemoan our inability to move the ball forward on more than one occasion this season

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 28 Dec 22 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Some sobering 22-23 stats from the Premier League site considering our progressive style;
Shots on target 19th
Big Chances missed 19th
Through balls 19th
Crosses 20th

However, a heady 8th for backwards passes, 3rd for counter attacking goals and league leaders for number of times dispossessed.

Mean nothing in isolation I guess but wonder what the club’s analysts make of that one.

In fairness to Vieira I’ve heard him bemoan our inability to move the ball forward on more than one occasion this season

Wow, that is some scary stats.

 

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 29 Dec 22 8.35am Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

It really is so easy to fix, 4-2-3-1, two DMs, Luka will do, there role is to stop attacks and defend the CBs, Doucoure cant do it on his own, which leaves Wilf, Eze and Olise more freedom, and a CF who can hold the ball up and is like Mateta only better, Edouard is never going to cut it in the premier league, but no, we have PVs vision of one DM and all other M/As playing out of position,

 


“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Dec 22 8.46am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

It really is so easy to fix, 4-2-3-1, two DMs, Luka will do, there role is to stop attacks and defend the CBs, Doucoure cant do it on his own, which leaves Wilf, Eze and Olise more freedom, and a CF who can hold the ball up and is like Mateta only better, Edouard is never going to cut it in the premier league, but no, we have PVs vision of one DM and all other M/As playing out of position,

Following a discussion, a coach at a PL club sent me the following yesterday :

[Link]

Edited by Willo (29 Dec 2022 8.51am)

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 29 Dec 22 9.24am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

My preference for Palace would be for two holding midfielders to give the team better balance, win the ball in key areas and allow us a platform for our attacking players to flourish.
I note there is a tendency though for the better teams to play with one midfielder sitting deep.
For Man City that’s Rodri (and before him Fernandinho) for Liverpool it’s usually Fabhino and for Arsenal it’s Partey.
However, these teams have better players than us and are more equipped to dominate possession and create and take chances.
Vieira’s aspirations are admirable, but there’s a danger it will not produce football which creates many chances (as the stats indicate) or leads to winning as many matches as we need to breathe more easily.
It will be interesting to see his team selections moving forward.
Part of me wonders if he plays the ‘one number 6 and two 8s ‘ in midfield because he’s wedded to the idea or because he just doesn’t rate the alternatives in Luka, Hughes and Jairo.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Dec 22 9.33am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

My preference for Palace would be for two holding midfielders to give the team better balance, win the ball in key areas and allow us a platform for our attacking players to flourish.
I note there is a tendency though for the better teams to play with one midfielder sitting deep.
For Man City that’s Rodri (and before him Fernandinho) for Liverpool it’s usually Fabhino and for Arsenal it’s Partey.
However, these teams have better players than us and are more equipped to dominate possession and create and take chances.

Vieira’s aspirations are admirable, but there’s a danger it will not produce football which creates many chances (as the stats indicate) or leads to winning as many matches as we need to breathe more easily.
It will be interesting to see his team selections moving forward.
Part of me wonders if he plays the ‘one number 6 and two 8s ‘ in midfield because he’s wedded to the idea or because he just doesn’t rate the alternatives in Luka, Hughes and Jairo.

Absolutely spot-on.
Furthermore, in particular both Man C and Liverpool have attacking full-backs which gives them a different dimension.

Edited by Willo (29 Dec 2022 9.34am)

 

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