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March 29 2024 2.11pm

Vieira vs Roy V2.0

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 28 Apr 23 2.43pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

For God sake the bottom line was Vieira was useless at all aspects of being a manager, he should have been sacked months before, if he hadn't i am certain we would have be relegated, move on, end of thread

 


“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag 28 Apr 23 3.37pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

For God sake the bottom line was Vieira was useless at all aspects of being a manager, he should have been sacked months before, if he hadn't i am certain we would have be relegated, move on, end of thread

It's not a fact just because you keep saying it! There is a middle ground where you can say he'd possibly run out of ideas or energy when things didn't go our way. We had arguably our best PL season ever last year. That's not possible if the manager is useless. Even this season up until the WC we were talking about a possible push for Europe, or at least the top 10. Post-WC we never got going and despite a few signs of promise ultimately he seemed to struggle to lift the squad or find a set of tactics that worked.

I'm happy to move on, but I'm equally also happy to continue sharing thoughts on the subject. I imagine given the patience levels of many fans if we lose to West Ham there'll be a Roy Out thread by Saturday evening. If we win people will be discussing whether we can still make the CL spots, such is the fickleness of following football in the modern era.

 

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View PJEagle's Profile PJEagle Flag London 28 Apr 23 4.19pm Send a Private Message to PJEagle Add PJEagle as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

It's not a fact just because you keep saying it! There is a middle ground where you can say he'd possibly run out of ideas or energy when things didn't go our way. We had arguably our best PL season ever last year. That's not possible if the manager is useless. Even this season up until the WC we were talking about a possible push for Europe, or at least the top 10. Post-WC we never got going and despite a few signs of promise ultimately he seemed to struggle to lift the squad or find a set of tactics that worked.

I'm happy to move on, but I'm equally also happy to continue sharing thoughts on the subject. I imagine given the patience levels of many fans if we lose to West Ham there'll be a Roy Out thread by Saturday evening. If we win people will be discussing whether we can still make the CL spots, such is the fickleness of following football in the modern era.

What I've learned from this was that it was a bit rash of Parish to entrust him with the job as manager. It's not just him but his backup team that has to be top notch. Something wasn't quite right so Parish took the decision to part company at the international break. I'm sure we'll get 7-10 more points so that we'll be well clear of rel gation by the end of season. I'm sure that the next manager will be much more experienced than Vieira was when he took over

 

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 28 Apr 23 4.46pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

It's not a fact just because you keep saying it! There is a middle ground where you can say he'd possibly run out of ideas or energy when things didn't go our way. We had arguably our best PL season ever last year. That's not possible if the manager is useless. Even this season up until the WC we were talking about a possible push for Europe, or at least the top 10. Post-WC we never got going and despite a few signs of promise ultimately he seemed to struggle to lift the squad or find a set of tactics that worked.

I'm happy to move on, but I'm equally also happy to continue sharing thoughts on the subject. I imagine given the patience levels of many fans if we lose to West Ham there'll be a Roy Out thread by Saturday evening. If we win people will be discussing whether we can still make the CL spots, such is the fickleness of following football in the modern era.

We had one of our best seasons because a lot of dross players had come to the end of there contracts and were replaced by far superior players, but even with them it didn't suit the ridiculous way Vieira wanted to play, we finish 12th two places and four points more than the previous season, they looked better because the players were better, there is no middle ground he was everything you didn't want in a manager, so bad that the players had to point out to the board how bad he was.

 


“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Apr 23 5.46pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

That's not possible if the manager is useless. Even this season up until the WC we were talking about a possible push for Europe, or at least the top 10.

I genuinely think you're wrong there, and there are plenty of examples to prove the point. New managers - not just in football but in any business - often get off to a fast start simply because initially, they're a breath of fresh air for a group of stale players (or employees). But the proof of the pudding is whether they sustain their initial performance, or if after a while they get found out and things decline.

One obvious example is Pardew, whose Palace team flew (largely driven by experienced players like Jedi rather than his management skills) for the first four months of his tenure before the wheels rapidly came off once the players realised he had nothing to offer.

It was similar with Vieira; initially (last year), the players were receptive to the changes he brought in and they performed for him. Once they realised how poor a coach and manager he was, it fairly rapidly went south. I don't think we were ever really challenging for Europe this year. We started poorly, had a brief good run where we amassed points but largely without performing well, and then reverted to type. I don't know if we'd have gone down or not had Vieira stayed but I do think it's a least possible we would have.

As I've said many times, I loved PVs persona, his dignity, and some of the stylistic changes he brought. I was desperately sad things didn't work out. But he had to go. He simply wasn't a good manager, not even close.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 28 Apr 23 7.22pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

I genuinely think you're wrong there, and there are plenty of examples to prove the point. New managers - not just in football but in any business - often get off to a fast start simply because initially, they're a breath of fresh air for a group of stale players (or employees). But the proof of the pudding is whether they sustain their initial performance, or if after a while they get found out and things decline.

One obvious example is Pardew, whose Palace team flew (largely driven by experienced players like Jedi rather than his management skills) for the first four months of his tenure before the wheels rapidly came off once the players realised he had nothing to offer.

It was similar with Vieira; initially (last year), the players were receptive to the changes he brought in and they performed for him. Once they realised how poor a coach and manager he was, it fairly rapidly went south. I don't think we were ever really challenging for Europe this year. We started poorly, had a brief good run where we amassed points but largely without performing well, and then reverted to type. I don't know if we'd have gone down or not had Vieira stayed but I do think it's a least possible we would have.

As I've said many times, I loved PVs persona, his dignity, and some of the stylistic changes he brought. I was desperately sad things didn't work out. But he had to go. He simply wasn't a good manager, not even close.


I've come round to that view as well, especially after Hodgson got various players performing who had seemed to have regressed or trod water under Vieira.

I wanted Vieira to succeed because it would have meant that we had successfully moved on/stepped up and so probably didn't see his shortcomings as early as number of fellow fans.

We can now but wait to see what the summer will bring.

 

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View imashed's Profile imashed Flag surrey 28 Apr 23 7.43pm Send a Private Message to imashed Add imashed as a friend

This season Roy all day as Pat had lost his bottle and any ideas on how to win or attempt to win. And not cool either.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 28 Apr 23 8.40pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Let's see how the 5 remaining games turn out. We were 12th under PV after a tough set of fixtures, we remain 12th under RH, after an arguably easier set of games. Everyone seems to have forgotten the absolutely dire two final seasons of Roy's first stint in charge, totally abysmal and as bad as anything served up by PV this season.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (28 Apr 2023 8.41pm)

 

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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 28 Apr 23 9.11pm Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

It's not a fact just because you keep saying it! There is a middle ground where you can say he'd possibly run out of ideas or energy when things didn't go our way. We had arguably our best PL season ever last year. That's not possible if the manager is useless. Even this season up until the WC we were talking about a possible push for Europe, or at least the top 10. Post-WC we never got going and despite a few signs of promise ultimately he seemed to struggle to lift the squad or find a set of tactics that worked.

I'm happy to move on, but I'm equally also happy to continue sharing thoughts on the subject. I imagine given the patience levels of many fans if we lose to West Ham there'll be a Roy Out thread by Saturday evening. If we win people will be discussing whether we can still make the CL spots, such is the fickleness of following football in the modern era.

I'd agree with this.

The fact of the matter, is that something have gone a bit wrong, but the terrible run of fixtures wouldn't have helped. Could he have turned it around? Maybe, maybe not...

Does it make him a terrible manager. Not really. There aren't many managers out there that havent been sacked, that have struggled to repeat success, or have seen performances fall off a cliff. The only that actually spring to mind are Fergie and Pep that have managed to maintain a consistently high standard.

Sometimes things need a fresh set of ideas, a new voice etc.

Now I'm not saying that Roy hasn't done well, because he has. But his first 3 games were against teams who were/are even more devoid of confidence than we were. And against Leeds we pretty much scored with every shot, and whilst comfortable we weren't great against Southampton

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Apr 23 9.25pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Is this thread still running?

Why?

Vieira is history. I'm looking forward.

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 28 Apr 23 10.00pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

Let's see how the 5 remaining games turn out. We were 12th under PV after a tough set of fixtures, we remain 12th under RH, after an arguably easier set of games. Everyone seems to have forgotten the absolutely dire two final seasons of Roy's first stint in charge, totally abysmal and as bad as anything served up by PV this season.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (28 Apr 2023 8.41pm)

Everyone keeps saying how dire the last two seasons were with Roy and I'd agree things were very stale at the end.

However, the facts were we were safe well before the end of the 19/20 season and the world became an extraordinary place.

The players played the season out through COVID, understandably lost a bit of motivation during the dead rubbers and a large group fans went off their heads because they had fvck all else to do.

The following season we started with the previously written off Scott Dann at centre back and despite winning our first two games some fans were still squealing like pigs and complaing about Harry Kane taking corners.

Vieira was a poor third choice and it's become evident Conor Gallagher kept him in a job.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 28 Apr 23 10.43pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Everyone keeps saying how dire the last two seasons were with Roy and I'd agree things were very stale at the end.

However, the facts were we were safe well before the end of the 19/20 season and the world became an extraordinary place.

The players played the season out through COVID, understandably lost a bit of motivation during the dead rubbers and a large group fans went off their heads because they had fvck all else to do.

The following season we started with the previously written off Scott Dann at centre back and despite winning our first two games some fans were still squealing like pigs and complaing about Harry Kane taking corners.

Vieira was a poor third choice and it's become evident Conor Gallagher kept him in a job.

Some very good points.

I still maintain, like it or not, throughout Roy’s employment his being here has been a matter of necessity. I don’t blame the board that they waited until the final hour, when the squads wheels had almost completely fallen off, to spend and synchronising this with bringing in a new, younger and fresher manager. Was a nice idea however by only backing an inexperienced manager with a (very much needed in any circumstance) mini spree it was almost inevitable we’d end up back with Roy barring something quite miraculous, which I suspect is what we were holding out for.

We should thank our lucky stars Roy has stepped in when we’ve needed him as we look as though we don’t have the investment or can afford any real margin of error to change our identity and model short term. I have a feeling the road ahead will be just as rocky and more ‘hoping for the best with a contingency plan in place’ awaits. The worry is Roy may not be there for us, or definitely won’t be if the next move fudges up. We could always see the Americans throw money at the problem, it is possible, but well, Chelsea and Everton as two examples.

The football might be uninspiring at times, a lot of the time, but the reality may be it is the best we can hope for much as we’d all like to think it’s not.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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