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April 16 2024 5.37pm

Vieira vs Roy V2.0

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 30 Apr 23 10.03pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

Can’t everybody get it into their head that Roy is a class manager and Patrick was awful, even the players thought he was. FFS

How inciteful. Your school results must have been exceptional. There is absolutely no need for such a post.,Vieira was good first year, Roy was good first year and same again now but crap third/fourth year of his first stint. It doesn’t take long to become enemy number one at this level, I don’t understand how you can be so critical when we don’t know whether Vieira would have done exactly the same against the lower teams. Hey, we can all guess but no one really knows and it’s totally crass to slag him off to the extent you have.

I’d love to see Vieira come to your doorstep and you tell him what you think of him. You’d last about 20 seconds I reckon.

 

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 01 May 23 7.25am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

Can’t everybody get it into their head that Roy is a class manager and Patrick was awful, even the players thought he was. FFS

When you boil everything down, the evidence suggests that this is exactly right. It's painful to say, but it's the truth.

If Vieira wasn't a). such a decent human being, and probably, more importantly, b). a World Cup and Premiership winner with a deservedly enormous reputation in the game, he'd have been gone long, long before he was eventually let go.

That pretty much all of us struggle to say a bad word about him in spite of his fundamental lack of competence as a manager speaks volumes. If you want to know the difference between Vieira and Roy without needing a single word to sum it up, look at the smile on Eze's face.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 01 May 23 7.34am Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops
I would tell him, why wouldn’t I, it’s my opinion, and not like many I am never two faced, say what you feel, anyway I have a couple of big Moroccan mates, I will stand behind them


How inciteful. Your school results must have been exceptional. There is absolutely no need for such a post.,Vieira was good first year, Roy was good first year and same again now but crap third/fourth year of his first stint. It doesn’t take long to become enemy number one at this level, I don’t understand how you can be so critical when we don’t know whether Vieira would have done exactly the same against the lower teams. Hey, we can all guess but no one really knows and it’s totally crass to slag him off to the extent you have.

I’d love to see Vieira come to your doorstep and you tell him what you think of him. You’d last about 20 seconds I reckon.

 


“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 01 May 23 7.45am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

it’s totally crass to slag him off to the extent you have.

You do know that the purpose of HOL (and football forums generally) is so people can post and discuss their opinions, right? If you think that's "crass" (sic) then I have to wonder why you're here. It's a bit like saying you hate cauliflower, then going to a restaurant and ordering cauliflower cheese before berating the waiter because you don't like your meal.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 01 May 23 8.36am Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Roy has done the job asked of him and shown what he can do with better resources. I would still have extreme reservations about him next season... it would depend on the players.

I will just point out a few things that I find useful markers.

Roy has 13 points from a possible 18, same as PV had in the corresponding matches. So maybe the line about the quality of the opposition is not without foundation.

Leicester 3. 1.
Leeds. 3. 3
Saints. 3. 3
Everton. 1. 0
Wolves. 0. 3
ham. 3. 3

Roy. 13. PV 13

The key positive in Roy's favour is Eze. He's not perfect but he had become lost. Maybe that was down to the quality of the opposition we were playing. Gut feel is PV couldn't get the best out of him.

Personally, I don't think Vieira deserved the sack, but I'm not privy to knowing how he was perceived by the players.

And at the end of the day, Roy delivered and that's worth tens of millions of pounds.

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 01 May 23 9.02am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

Roy has done the job asked of him and shown what he can do with better resources. I would still have extreme reservations about him next season... it would depend on the players.

I will just point out a few things that I find useful markers.

Roy has 13 points from a possible 18, same as PV had in the corresponding matches. So maybe the line about the quality of the opposition is not without foundation.

Leicester 3. 1.
Leeds. 3. 3
Saints. 3. 3
Everton. 1. 0
Wolves. 0. 3
ham. 3. 3

Roy. 13. PV 13

The key positive in Roy's favour is Eze. He's not perfect but he had become lost. Maybe that was down to the quality of the opposition we were playing. Gut feel is PV couldn't get the best out of him.

Personally, I don't think Vieira deserved the sack, but I'm not privy to knowing how he was perceived by the players.

And at the end of the day, Roy delivered and that's worth tens of millions of pounds.

Moving up the table a few places delivers £££. 4 games remaining, 12 points at stake, our best total would therefore be 52 points, which Brighton are currently on, having played 3 games less. This is indicative of our season, and it seems likely that we will finish around 12th, where we have been most of the season.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 01 May 23 11.03am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

...

The key positive in Roy's favour is Eze. He's not perfect but he had become lost. Maybe that was down to the quality of the opposition we were playing. Gut feel is PV couldn't get the best out of him.

Personally, I don't think Vieira deserved the sack, but I'm not privy to knowing how he was perceived by the players.

And at the end of the day, Roy delivered and that's worth tens of millions of pounds.


I suggest there are number of other positives such as:
- improvement in the form of other players such as Ward, Schlupp and Mitchell
- using Ayew in a better position be that wide left when Wilf was injured or at CF. Ayew was one of the more consistent performers under Vieira but he has blossomed under Hodgson.
- a pragmatic style of play which suits the players whether attackers, midfielders or defenders.
- Hodgson has players working well together on the two flanks Olise/Eze/Ward on the right; Zaha (or Ayew)/Schlupp/Mitchell on the left
- Doucoure no longer needs to risk yellow cards or is it just coincidence that he hasn't had one yet in under Hodgson?

Basically, Hodgson, being the very experienced manager he is has come in, seen what was wrong and fixed it pretty quick. Yes he was fortunate to have a helpful run of fixtures but, boy, has he transformed our performances.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 01 May 23 11.21am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


I suggest there are number of other positives such as:
- improvement in the form of other players such as Ward, Schlupp and Mitchell
- using Ayew in a better position be that wide left when Wilf was injured or at CF. Ayew was one of the more consistent performers under Vieira but he has blossomed under Hodgson.
- a pragmatic style of play which suits the players whether attackers, midfielders or defenders.
- Hodgson has players working well together on the two flanks Olise/Eze/Ward on the right; Zaha (or Ayew)/Schlupp/Mitchell on the left
- Doucoure no longer needs to risk yellow cards or is it just coincidence that he hasn't had one yet in under Hodgson?

Basically, Hodgson, being the very experienced manager he is has come in, seen what was wrong and fixed it pretty quick. Yes he was fortunate to have a helpful run of fixtures but, boy, has he transformed our performances.

Yes, this is indeed the case. Players who earlier in the season who looked lost and lazy under Vieira have blossomed under Hodgson; more effort, more desire, their potential is being delivered. I strongly doubt that this group of players would have performed in the manner they have had Vieira been retained. All credit therefore to Roy and Ray for bringing forth the potential these players have and allowing them to express themselves on the pitch.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 May 23 11.21am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


I suggest there are number of other positives such as:
- improvement in the form of other players such as Ward, Schlupp and Mitchell
- ]using Ayew in a better position be that wide left when Wilf was injured or at CF. Ayew was one of the more consistent performers under Vieira but he has blossomed under Hodgson.
- a pragmatic style of play which suits the players whether attackers, midfielders or defenders.
- Hodgson has players working well together on the two flanks Olise/Eze/Ward on the right; Zaha (or Ayew)/Schlupp/Mitchell on the left
- Doucoure no longer needs to risk yellow cards or is it just coincidence that he hasn't had one yet in under Hodgson?

Basically, Hodgson, being the very experienced manager he is has come in, seen what was wrong and fixed it pretty quick. Yes he was fortunate to have a helpful run of fixtures but, boy, has he transformed our performances.

It was quite clear what was wrong under PV, the results didn’t lie and neither did the stats plus it was there for us all to see on the pitch. My endorsement of his sacking stemmed primarily from the fact I could not form any argument or identify evidence to support the idea that he had any solutions or even insight to the teams failings.

The run in does have to factor into thoughts but given the consistently lacklustre performances, which never demonstrated anything remotely resembling a coherent game plan architected to win us matches, simply stating ‘he would of won the easier games’ was for me too weak a sentiment to justify his continued employment when we were staring disaster in the face.

Conversely, Roy has come in, the stats but more importantly results have massively improved and beyond that, I for one, have felt a sense of belief that we are capable of getting a result when we play. The months previous I felt very much as though I were waiting on some sort of miracle for a goal let alone a win.

Roy has far superior experience yes, however I’d also argue I never, ever, once got any hint whatsoever from PV that he was fully engaged, passionate and committed to his role. Roy has that in abundance despite his age which again reflects poorly on Vieira. ‘Young and hungry manager’ is often the phrase, PV was young, sort of, and that’s all.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Qwijibo's Profile Qwijibo Flag Bournemouth 02 May 23 12.13am Send a Private Message to Qwijibo Add Qwijibo as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


even worse - it was 0-3 and the game that led to Derry's infamous rant in the dressing room.

I was at that Leicester game and we were so timid against a team that had lost game after game and was clearly lacking confidence. Our performance helped them to start the mini revival they had prior to the World Cup.

Edited by doombear (19 Apr 2023 10.30am)

Here's some more context to that 3:0 Everton defeat

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 02 May 23 9.53am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

Roy has done the job asked of him and shown what he can do with better resources. I would still have extreme reservations about him next season... it would depend on the players.

I will just point out a few things that I find useful markers.

Roy has 13 points from a possible 18, same as PV had in the corresponding matches. So maybe the line about the quality of the opposition is not without foundation.

Leicester 3. 1.
Leeds. 3. 3
Saints. 3. 3
Everton. 1. 0
Wolves. 0. 3
ham. 3. 3

Roy. 13. PV 13

The key positive in Roy's favour is Eze. He's not perfect but he had become lost. Maybe that was down to the quality of the opposition we were playing. Gut feel is PV couldn't get the best out of him.

Personally, I don't think Vieira deserved the sack, but I'm not privy to knowing how he was perceived by the players.

And at the end of the day, Roy delivered and that's worth tens of millions of pounds.

PV achieved that last season when the chemistry appeared to have been there.

We will never know, but there was a strong suggestion that the chemistry was no longer there this season, and that he may not have matched last year's results.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 02 May 23 9.56am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Qwijibo

Here's some more context to that 3:0 Everton defeat

If you believe what you read, he turned us down.

If true (and for the purposes of this post, let's just assume it) one has to applaud his arrogance and self-importance while at the same time exhaling a long happy sigh of relief.

 

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