Creation vs. Evolution Debate

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dave_mc_89 Walkin like a cyclone 07 Jan 05 5.46pm
my thoughts on the debate are thus: god didn't create the world in 6 days. recent scientific developments have shown that to be not true. the 6 days is symbolic, perhaps of 60 million years or 600million years. the big bang was triggered by god (things don't just happen, everything has a cause) and that created the earth, and over the symbolic 6 days, dinosaurs came and went, plants seas, land, humans, etc were created and then humans evolved from hairy cavemen type dudes, but we were never monkeys. humans are the only animals to have a sense of humour, and, although they can be quite humorous, primates don't. now, if you're not bored to sleep, go and watch the news. Burn down the disco, hang the blessed DJ
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dave_mc_89

Walkin like a cyclone 07 Jan 05 5.46pm

my thoughts on the debate are thus:
god didn't create the world in 6 days. recent scientific developments have shown that to be not true. the 6 days is symbolic, perhaps of 60 million years or 600million years. the big bang was triggered by god (things don't just happen, everything has a cause) and that created the earth, and over the symbolic 6 days, dinosaurs came and went, plants seas, land, humans, etc were created and then humans evolved from hairy cavemen type dudes, but we were never monkeys. humans are the only animals to have a sense of humour, and, although they can be quite humorous, primates don't.
now, if you're not bored to sleep, go and watch the news.

Burn down the disco, hang the blessed DJ

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mattwebb Sutton 07 Jan 05 5.51pm
Quote yellabubs at 07 Jan 2005 5:16pm As far as I know there are no copies of the old testament dating before the time of Jesus. On that basis I would be reluctant to give much credence to any prophecies that appear to have been fulfilled... it would have been lax to have got it wrong! Well that's wrong for starters. Surely the Jews would tell you for a fact that the OT has not changed since before the time of Jesus. They have exactly the same OT as us, they just don't believe Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.
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mattwebb

Sutton 07 Jan 05 5.51pm

Quote yellabubs at 07 Jan 2005 5:16pm
As far as I know there are no copies of the old testament dating before the time of Jesus. On that basis I would be reluctant to give much credence to any prophecies that appear to have been fulfilled... it would have been lax to have got it wrong!

Well that's wrong for starters. Surely the Jews would tell you for a fact that the OT has not changed since before the time of Jesus. They have exactly the same OT as us, they just don't believe Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.

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yellabubs Sheffield 07 Jan 05 5.55pm
Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 5:51pm Quote yellabubs at 07 Jan 2005 5:16pm As far as I know there are no copies of the old testament dating before the time of Jesus. On that basis I would be reluctant to give much credence to any prophecies that appear to have been fulfilled... it would have been lax to have got it wrong! Well that's wrong for starters. Surely the Jews would tell you for a fact that the OT has not changed since before the time of Jesus. They have exactly the same OT as us, they just don't believe Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the coming Messiah. How can anyone say "for a fact" the OT hasn't changed since before the time of Jesus when there isn't a copy with which to compare?
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yellabubs

Sheffield 07 Jan 05 5.55pm

Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 5:51pm

How can anyone say "for a fact" the OT hasn't changed since before the time of Jesus when there isn't a copy with which to compare?

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Seth On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 5.56pm
Quote tome at 07 Jan 2005 5:38pm Aye, Seth, but if someone's religious does it not affect their decision making process on every level? Regardless as to whether they keep it to themselves or not, the fact of their religious sentiments may well mean that there is always another agenda. I see where you're coming from, but it depends on; the person, the level of their fundamentalism, the particular religion involved and many other factors. I've met some lovely religious people, but also some complete nutters who I would cross the street to avoid. In general, I think religion is a harmful influence on humanity, but I also accept that billions of people are adherents and wouldn't reject them all as decent folk because of their faith. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 5.56pm

Quote tome at 07 Jan 2005 5:38pm

Aye, Seth, but if someone's religious does it not affect their decision making process on every level? Regardless as to whether they keep it to themselves or not, the fact of their religious sentiments may well mean that there is always another agenda.

I see where you're coming from, but it depends on; the person, the level of their fundamentalism, the particular religion involved and many other factors. I've met some lovely religious people, but also some complete nutters who I would cross the street to avoid.

In general, I think religion is a harmful influence on humanity, but I also accept that billions of people are adherents and wouldn't reject them all as decent folk because of their faith.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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tetley Wimbledon 07 Jan 05 6.03pm
Quote Singapore Eagle at 07 Jan 2005 5:07pm Seth - I agree entirely. But, for those who do have faith, then I believe that they should not knock it. Apart from those like the suicide bombers who are going against the word. but are suicide bombers really going against the word?? the bible and the koran are entirley open to interpretation, as is any text. one inerpretation is just as valid as the other no matter how evil the consequences. that is why i think it is misguided to live ones life from the contents of a book - especially one which most people read in the form of a translation completely warped from the original. Edited by tetley (07 Jan 2005 6:03pm) It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee; All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see; All Discord, Harmony, not understood; All partial Evil, universal Good [Link]
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tetley

Wimbledon 07 Jan 05 6.03pm

Quote Singapore Eagle at 07 Jan 2005 5:07pm

Seth - I agree entirely.

But, for those who do have faith, then I believe that they should not knock it. Apart from those like the suicide bombers who are going against the word.

but are suicide bombers really going against the word??

the bible and the koran are entirley open to interpretation, as is any text. one inerpretation is just as valid as the other no matter how evil the consequences.

that is why i think it is misguided to live ones life from the contents of a book - especially one which most people read in the form of a translation completely warped from the original.

Edited by tetley (07 Jan 2005 6:03pm)

It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing
All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee;
All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see;
All Discord, Harmony, not understood;
All partial Evil, universal Good

[Link]

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mattwebb Sutton 07 Jan 05 6.07pm
Quote Singapore Eagle at 07 Jan 2005 5:01pm Matt - I am not having a go at you (I have just sent you a PM to stress that fact) but, it is all down to interpretation - otherise, how do you explain the Protestant vs. Catholic problem - both sets of Christians?????? I tell you what, when people start to allow their own preferences to change the way they interpret it that is when we have a problem. Say I want to have sex with my girlfriend before marriage, I might look at a verse that says clearly to the unbiased that it is wrong to have sex before marriage, and twist it to suit myself and say "oh that verse means that I must not have multiple sexual relationships at the same time". Catholocism isn't just based on the Bible. The Vatican stated that the Pope's has more authority than the Bible. That means they allowed a falliable man to decide the future of their faith. Seems silly to me. I try my best, with prayer, to interpret the Bible with no bias at all. It is hard, because my human nature tries to deceive my own self, which is why I pray for help from God. There are grey areas in the Bible that could be honestly interpreted in more than one way, and that is why there is differences, but not differences as large as whether or not Christ is God, and the vast differences between Christianity and Islam.
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mattwebb

Sutton 07 Jan 05 6.07pm

Quote Singapore Eagle at 07 Jan 2005 5:01pm

Matt - I am not having a go at you (I have just sent you a PM to stress that fact) but, it is all down to interpretation - otherise, how do you explain the Protestant vs. Catholic problem - both sets of Christians??????

I tell you what, when people start to allow their own preferences to change the way they interpret it that is when we have a problem.

Say I want to have sex with my girlfriend before marriage, I might look at a verse that says clearly to the unbiased that it is wrong to have sex before marriage, and twist it to suit myself and say "oh that verse means that I must not have multiple sexual relationships at the same time".

Catholocism isn't just based on the Bible. The Vatican stated that the Pope's has more authority than the Bible. That means they allowed a falliable man to decide the future of their faith. Seems silly to me.

I try my best, with prayer, to interpret the Bible with no bias at all. It is hard, because my human nature tries to deceive my own self, which is why I pray for help from God.

There are grey areas in the Bible that could be honestly interpreted in more than one way, and that is why there is differences, but not differences as large as whether or not Christ is God, and the vast differences between Christianity and Islam.

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mattwebb Sutton 07 Jan 05 6.08pm
Quote Seth at 07 Jan 2005 5:56pm Quote tome at 07 Jan 2005 5:38pm Aye, Seth, but if someone's religious does it not affect their decision making process on every level? Regardless as to whether they keep it to themselves or not, the fact of their religious sentiments may well mean that there is always another agenda. I see where you're coming from, but it depends on; the person, the level of their fundamentalism, the particular religion involved and many other factors. I've met some lovely religious people, but also some complete nutters who I would cross the street to avoid. In general, I think religion is a harmful influence on humanity, but I also accept that billions of people are adherents and wouldn't reject them all as decent folk because of their faith. If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die?
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mattwebb

Sutton 07 Jan 05 6.08pm

Quote Seth at 07 Jan 2005 5:56pm

Quote tome at 07 Jan 2005 5:38pm

In general, I think religion is a harmful influence on humanity, but I also accept that billions of people are adherents and wouldn't reject them all as decent folk because of their faith.

If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die?

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Seth On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 7.28pm
Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 6:08pm If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die? If I believed that, I would fully expect to be sectioned and kept in a secure ward for my own safety and that of the general public. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 7.28pm

Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 6:08pm

If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die?

If I believed that, I would fully expect to be sectioned and kept in a secure ward for my own safety and that of the general public.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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mattwebb Sutton 07 Jan 05 7.37pm
Then you wouldn't really believe it. I like the way you avoided answering the question honestly.
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mattwebb

Sutton 07 Jan 05 7.37pm

Then you wouldn't really believe it. I like the way you avoided answering the question honestly.

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tetley Wimbledon 07 Jan 05 7.49pm
Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 6:08pm If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die? no but if you were completely comfortable with the idea of death, would you want someone doorstepping you with the promise of eternal life? It's not the fall that's important.....it's the landing All Nature is but Art, unknown to thee; All Chance, Direction, which thou canst not see; All Discord, Harmony, not understood; All partial Evil, universal Good [Link]
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tetley

Wimbledon 07 Jan 05 7.49pm

Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 6:08pm

If you believed that you had the answer to eternal life, would you keep it to yourself and let everyone else die?

but if you were completely comfortable with the idea of death, would you want someone doorstepping you with the promise of eternal life?

[Link]

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mattwebb Sutton 07 Jan 05 7.51pm
I take your point, but I am sure that the majority of people would chose to have eternal life of pure bliss if they could. That's kind of a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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mattwebb

Sutton 07 Jan 05 7.51pm

I take your point, but I am sure that the majority of people would chose to have eternal life of pure bliss if they could.

That's kind of a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

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Seth On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 7.56pm
Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 7:37pm Then you wouldn't really believe it. I like the way you avoided answering the question honestly. I didn't answer it because I know I would never be so arrogant and fanatical to believe my views were so much better than anyone else's that I should doorstep them to inform them of the error of their ways. All religions believe they have THE answer. I don't want any of them knocking on my door or stopping me in the street to "save" me from the life that I am very happy with, thank you very much. They all think they know the truth and that they have been sent by their god or gods to share it with me. Your version is no more valid than that of a muslim, hindu, sikh or anyone else who thinks they have a monopoly on truth and eternity. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 07 Jan 05 7.56pm

Quote mattwebb at 07 Jan 2005 7:37pm

Then you wouldn't really believe it. I like the way you avoided answering the question honestly.

I didn't answer it because I know I would never be so arrogant and fanatical to believe my views were so much better than anyone else's that I should doorstep them to inform them of the error of their ways.

All religions believe they have THE answer. I don't want any of them knocking on my door or stopping me in the street to "save" me from the life that I am very happy with, thank you very much.

They all think they know the truth and that they have been sent by their god or gods to share it with me. Your version is no more valid than that of a muslim, hindu, sikh or anyone else who thinks they have a monopoly on truth and eternity.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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