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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 13 Jul 05 6.38pm
Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then? 'Multicultural' means 'the existence of several cultures within a society', 'several' means 'some' or 'more than one', so with that in mind, come on then, let's hear it, how the f* can you have a race riot in a monocultural society I'm intrigued! Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? A one and a two...**
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tome

Inner Tantalus Time. 13 Jul 05 6.38pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm

What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then?

'Multicultural' means 'the existence of several cultures within a society', 'several' means 'some' or 'more than one', so with that in mind, come on then, let's hear it, how the f*** can you have a race riot in a monocultural society I'm intrigued!

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

A one and a two...

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Jul 05 6.49pm
Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then? 'Multicultural' means 'the existence of several cultures within a society', 'several' means 'some' or 'more than one', so with that in mind, come on then, let's hear it, how the f* can you have a race riot in a monocultural society I'm intrigued! Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly are! Can you not see that? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham**
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 13 Jul 05 6.49pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm

What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then?

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly are! Can you not see that?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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NickinOX Sailing country. 13 Jul 05 6.49pm
Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:31pm Quote NickinOX at 13 Jul 2005 6:13pm [ These people do not need an excuse. They will create one that suits them. N.B. Al-Quaida's goal was to get rid of Ameirca from Saudi. Then when America pulled almost all of it's troops out, it became to get rid of it from somwhere else (Iraq). The stated goal of a number of the groups with similar philosophies is the complete and utter destruction of the west. Nothing short of that will do. Do you really think that Iraq caused this? Many of these terrorists groups want to compltely destroy us and they will use any and all excuses to justify their aims. They want US troops out of a variety of places. And so do I. If the Americans weren't occupying, I think the problem would be massively less significant than it is. And all this about a hypothetical 'firing line' is silly, I think. There is always a firing line, and we're always in it. Everywhere can suffer as a result of a crazed bunch of maniacs, it doesn't matter on that level the ideology behind it. Where it does matter is in the number of pies we've stuck out fingers in, especially when we do so as a nation and we do so with violence. Then you have made my point for me. Iraq was not the cause of the recent bombings. It was an excuse for them. If it is as simple as American troop deployments, then why have French and German civilians been consistently targetted. Both countries have managed to thwart some serious attacks, particularly in the case of France which prevented a Jumbo jet from being crashed in the Eiffel Tower! How does that fit into the logic f American power being to blame? By the way, who is they, when referring to wanting US troops out? And where should American troops get out of? Provide a list. There are many places that have them and want to keep them! Edited by NickinOX (13 Jul 2005 6:50pm)
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 13 Jul 05 6.49pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:31pm

Quote NickinOX at 13 Jul 2005 6:13pm

[
These people do not need an excuse. They will create one that suits them. N.B. Al-Quaida's goal was to get rid of Ameirca from Saudi. Then when America pulled almost all of it's troops out, it became to get rid of it from somwhere else (Iraq). The stated goal of a number of the groups with similar philosophies is the complete and utter destruction of the west. Nothing short of that will do. Do you really think that Iraq caused this? Many of these terrorists groups want to compltely destroy us and they will use any and all excuses to justify their aims.

They want US troops out of a variety of places. And so do I. If the Americans weren't occupying, I think the problem would be massively less significant than it is.

And all this about a hypothetical 'firing line' is silly, I think. There is always a firing line, and we're always in it. Everywhere can suffer as a result of a crazed bunch of maniacs, it doesn't matter on that level the ideology behind it.

Where it does matter is in the number of pies we've stuck out fingers in, especially when we do so as a nation and we do so with violence.

Then you have made my point for me. Iraq was not the cause of the recent bombings. It was an excuse for them.

If it is as simple as American troop deployments, then why have French and German civilians been consistently targetted. Both countries have managed to thwart some serious attacks, particularly in the case of France which prevented a Jumbo jet from being crashed in the Eiffel Tower! How does that fit into the logic f American power being to blame?

By the way, who is they, when referring to wanting US troops out? And where should American troops get out of? Provide a list. There are many places that have them and want to keep them!

Edited by NickinOX (13 Jul 2005 6:50pm)

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 13 Jul 05 6.50pm
Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Oh for f***'s sake this is pointless! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 13 Jul 05 6.50pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Oh for f***'s sake this is pointless!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 13 Jul 05 10.33pm
Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:50pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Oh for f*'s sake this is pointless! Well, that's my point Pete. If you choose to judge people by the colour of their skin, what does that make you? If you assume that culture is the same thing as race, then you are including the Muslim Chechen causasians amongst what appears to be some kind of collective definition of 'race' and 'culture'. These words tend to spring to the fore when one is confronted with such odious generalisations as peddled by the likes of the BNP. A definition of culture is always tricky, but tends to be founded on some perception of shared experience including history, language, and so on. 'Race' on the other hand has become a meaningless term in my opinion. Trying to define 'race' when so many people have family tress including roots all over the planet is near impossible. Simplifications such as chucking the two about together casually create the offshoot of ignorance on which racism feeds. A one and a two...**
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tome

Inner Tantalus Time. 13 Jul 05 10.33pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:50pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Oh for f***'s sake this is pointless!

Well, that's my point Pete. If you choose to judge people by the colour of their skin, what does that make you?

If you assume that culture is the same thing as race, then you are including the Muslim Chechen causasians amongst what appears to be some kind of collective definition of 'race' and 'culture'.

These words tend to spring to the fore when one is confronted with such odious generalisations as peddled by the likes of the BNP. A definition of culture is always tricky, but tends to be founded on some perception of shared experience including history, language, and so on.

'Race' on the other hand has become a meaningless term in my opinion. Trying to define 'race' when so many people have family tress including roots all over the planet is near impossible.

Simplifications such as chucking the two about together casually create the offshoot of ignorance on which racism feeds.

A one and a two...

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morganistic 14 Jul 05 2.19am
bombs have gone off in london. we all feel violated and threatened. we all wonder what to do about it. but how can we know what to do about it if we can't even agree on why it's happened? no wonder this thread has degenerated into a bit of a slanging match. at least there's some certainties there. [Link] ''careful Penny - we don't know what we're dealing with here''
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morganistic

14 Jul 05 2.19am

bombs have gone off in london. we all feel violated and threatened. we all wonder what to do about it.
but how can we know what to do about it if we can't even agree on why it's happened?
no wonder this thread has degenerated into a bit of a slanging match. at least there's some certainties there.

[Link]
''careful Penny - we don't know what we're dealing with here''

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 14 Jul 05 7.56am
Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 10:33pm Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:50pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Oh for f*'s sake this is pointless! Well, that's my point Pete. If you choose to judge people by the colour of their skin, what does that make you? If you assume that culture is the same thing as race, then you are including the Muslim Chechen causasians amongst what appears to be some kind of collective definition of 'race' and 'culture'. These words tend to spring to the fore when one is confronted with such odious generalisations as peddled by the likes of the BNP. A definition of culture is always tricky, but tends to be founded on some perception of shared experience including history, language, and so on. 'Race' on the other hand has become a meaningless term in my opinion. Trying to define 'race' when so many people have family tress including roots all over the planet is near impossible. Simplifications such as chucking the two about together casually create the offshoot of ignorance on which racism feeds. What are you banging on about? I'm talking about Britain, I don't need some theological lecture on the difference between race and culture. It's quite simple, there was a race riot in Oldham when thousands of Asian youths ran amok, this would not have happened if those thousands of Asian youths had not been in Oldham in the first place, if Oldham had not been turned into Oldhamabad. It's that simple, colour of skin has f* all to do with this and you know it. My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 14 Jul 05 7.56am

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 10:33pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:50pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Oh for f***'s sake this is pointless!

Well, that's my point Pete. If you choose to judge people by the colour of their skin, what does that make you?

If you assume that culture is the same thing as race, then you are including the Muslim Chechen causasians amongst what appears to be some kind of collective definition of 'race' and 'culture'.

'Race' on the other hand has become a meaningless term in my opinion. Trying to define 'race' when so many people have family tress including roots all over the planet is near impossible.

Simplifications such as chucking the two about together casually create the offshoot of ignorance on which racism feeds.

What are you banging on about? I'm talking about Britain, I don't need some theological lecture on the difference between race and culture. It's quite simple, there was a race riot in Oldham when thousands of Asian youths ran amok, this would not have happened if those thousands of Asian youths had not been in Oldham in the first place, if Oldham had not been turned into Oldhamabad. It's that simple, colour of skin has f*** all to do with this and you know it.

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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furrybloke Hemel Hempstead 14 Jul 05 8.54am
I have read all the comments on here by HMHS, Petealitor & the other, firstly I think this thread should have all of your comments deleted & be put in gold talk to remember an important day in the UK history with out the bickering between you you & I would suggest we start another thread to keep it going as personally I find very amusing as neither Pete or HMHS seems to be willing to comprimise with the other. Iraq did not put us in the firing line of Osama or any of the other Islamic loonies. They existed & target the west on a number of occasions. For those of you who do not agree 9/11 came before the second Iraq war & we did not start the first. I can see where Pete is comming from regarding immigrants & other religions as they do seem to get special treatment. I do not however agree with the majority of his views. In my opinion the more diverse Britian is the better, for one thing it increase my choice of take away on a Friday! (That is a joke before you jump down my throat) I do however feel that regardless of colourm, religion, beliefs & all the other things that make us who we are we should be proud to be British & to live here you should be able to speak english, you should study & know our history & be proud of it (this includes white kids as well) & you should have to study other religions. I have 3 kids at school all of whom have had to study RE which covers all religions, why are musilms always allowed to sit this out it is not right, my eldest is going to uni to read History & has just turned a uni down flat as they concentrate on American history, we are British & should teach British. In summary because I am sure I lost the thread above at some point Multiculturalism is good for us all but acceptance of others needs to be practised by all.
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furrybloke

Hemel Hempstead 14 Jul 05 8.54am

I have read all the comments on here by HMHS, Petealitor & the other, firstly I think this thread should have all of your comments deleted & be put in gold talk to remember an important day in the UK history with out the bickering between you you & I would suggest we start another thread to keep it going as personally I find very amusing as neither Pete or HMHS seems to be willing to comprimise with the other.

Iraq did not put us in the firing line of Osama or any of the other Islamic loonies. They existed & target the west on a number of occasions. For those of you who do not agree 9/11 came before the second Iraq war & we did not start the first.

I can see where Pete is comming from regarding immigrants & other religions as they do seem to get special treatment. I do not however agree with the majority of his views. In my opinion the more diverse Britian is the better, for one thing it increase my choice of take away on a Friday! (That is a joke before you jump down my throat) I do however feel that regardless of colourm, religion, beliefs & all the other things that make us who we are we should be proud to be British & to live here you should be able to speak english, you should study & know our history & be proud of it (this includes white kids as well) & you should have to study other religions. I have 3 kids at school all of whom have had to study RE which covers all religions, why are musilms always allowed to sit this out it is not right, my eldest is going to uni to read History & has just turned a uni down flat as they concentrate on American history, we are British & should teach British.

In summary because I am sure I lost the thread above at some point Multiculturalism is good for us all but acceptance of others needs to be practised by all.

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 14 Jul 05 9.01am
If you want to know who linked Iraq with the war on terror, it was Bush and Blair, as I recall. The Iraq thing is a whole long story that goes way back though, before 9/11, before the Kuwait war, before even Saddam. We've been meddling in that part of the world for far too long. It needs an entirely new thread just to get started on Iraq. Furry, you speak the truth pal. Aside from petty arguments with little boys that can only express themselves through anger and violence, the overriding message I get from this thread is just what you say :"acceptance of others needs to be practised by all"... right now, the only special treatment the immigrants seem to be getting is suspicion, spite and (in some awful cases) being beaten to death for being Muslim by people who think they are a threat to "British culture". If British culture is beating people to death, I want none of it. There is plenty to be proud of in this country, but it doesn't mean we should wear rose-tinted glasses and dream about warm beer and village cricket. We have big problems here with some people not mixing with the rest of society, and some people not accepting people into society. They all need their thick heads banging together. face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 14 Jul 05 9.01am

If you want to know who linked Iraq with the war on terror, it was Bush and Blair, as I recall. The Iraq thing is a whole long story that goes way back though, before 9/11, before the Kuwait war, before even Saddam. We've been meddling in that part of the world for far too long. It needs an entirely new thread just to get started on Iraq.

Furry, you speak the truth pal. Aside from petty arguments with little boys that can only express themselves through anger and violence, the overriding message I get from this thread is just what you say :"acceptance of others needs to be practised by all"... right now, the only special treatment the immigrants seem to be getting is suspicion, spite and (in some awful cases) being beaten to death for being Muslim by people who think they are a threat to "British culture".

If British culture is beating people to death, I want none of it. There is plenty to be proud of in this country, but it doesn't mean we should wear rose-tinted glasses and dream about warm beer and village cricket. We have big problems here with some people not mixing with the rest of society, and some people not accepting people into society. They all need their thick heads banging together.

face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno

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Balham Burner 14 Jul 05 9.13am
Quote Cucking Funt at 13 Jul 2005 6:49pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then? 'Multicultural' means 'the existence of several cultures within a society', 'several' means 'some' or 'more than one', so with that in mind, come on then, let's hear it, how the f* can you have a race riot in a monocultural society I'm intrigued! Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly** are! Can you not see that? What like tea drinking, cricket playing, English speaking people from India???
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Balham Burner

14 Jul 05 9.13am

Quote Cucking Funt at 13 Jul 2005 6:49pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm

What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then?

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly are! Can you not see that?

What like tea drinking, cricket playing, English speaking people from India???

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 14 Jul 05 9.16am
Quote Balham Burner at 14 Jul 2005 9:13am Quote Cucking Funt at 13 Jul 2005 6:49pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then? 'Multicultural' means 'the existence of several cultures within a society', 'several' means 'some' or 'more than one', so with that in mind, come on then, let's hear it, how the f* can you have a race riot in a monocultural society I'm intrigued! Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture? Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly are! Can you not see that? What like tea drinking, cricket playing, English speaking people from India??? A very small percentage of the total, you'll find. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham**
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 14 Jul 05 9.16am

Quote Balham Burner at 14 Jul 2005 9:13am

Quote Cucking Funt at 13 Jul 2005 6:49pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:38pm

Quote Petealiator at 13 Jul 2005 6:36pm

Quote tome at 13 Jul 2005 6:09pm

What makes you think race riots and suicide bombers are naturally the product of multicultural society then?

Why are we assuming that people of different race are necessarily of different culture?

Because, in many cases, they are! People originating from the Indian sub-continent certainly are! Can you not see that?

What like tea drinking, cricket playing, English speaking people from India???

A very small percentage of the total, you'll find.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 14 Jul 05 9.19am
Quite, BB. That's the problem with these "statements" about them and us -- once you examine them closely, the smell of bullsh!t becomes all-pervading. Whether the bombers did it because of Iraq or Palestine is debatable, sure, but everyone seems to be in agreement that their main aim was to divide us as a nation and make us fight eachother. That makes me all the more determined to ensure that we don't allow that to happen, otherwise we might as well fight all their battles for them. face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 14 Jul 05 9.19am

Quite, BB. That's the problem with these "statements" about them and us -- once you examine them closely, the smell of bullsh!t becomes all-pervading.

Whether the bombers did it because of Iraq or Palestine is debatable, sure, but everyone seems to be in agreement that their main aim was to divide us as a nation and make us fight eachother. That makes me all the more determined to ensure that we don't allow that to happen, otherwise we might as well fight all their battles for them.

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