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March 28 2024 8.22am

John McDonnell says -Trust Labour with the economy

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 13 Mar 16 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Of course they also had the longest period of economic growth. The problem for labour, in terms of the economy was outside their control. Take the crunch out of the equation, and they were remarkably successful in terms of the economy.

In large part due to the Tories in the previous administrations.

See how easy it is?

 

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Mar 16 1.47pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Fullerer details here...

One of the most oft repeated "economic" arguments posited by Tory party supporters is the "didn't Labour leave a note admitting there was no money left?" question, which is often used in conjunction with the absurdly counter-factual "Labour bankrupted Britain" narrative.

The first thing to note about this question is that the note that was left by Liam Byrne saying that "there's no money" was intended as a joke, not as a serious statement of fact. The joke being a reiteration of the 1965 note left by the Tory Chancellor Reginald Maudling for his successor Jim Callaghan that said "good luck old cock, sorry to leave it in a mess".

If the crux of your economic argument is a joke note written five years ago by a fool like Liam Byrne, then it's absolutely clear that you don't have the faintest regard for genuine economic analysis, and prefer to rote learn economic fairy stories from the employees of right wing press barons like Rupert Murdoch (S*n, Times, Sky TV), Jonathan Harmsworth (Daily Mail, Metro), the Barclay brothers (Telegraph, Spectator) and RIchard Desmond (Express, Star).

It's hard to believe that anyone could be credulous enough to believe that the proposition that "there's no money" was an accurate one rather than a joke, but apparently lots of Tory supporters do, and even use it as the keystone of their argument in favour of reelecting the Conservatives!

It's hard to not feel like I'm being patronising in explaining what is to come in the next paragraph, but there are apparently a heck of a lot of Tories out there who honestly don't seem to understand this stuff.

The idea that there ever was "no money left" is a childlike fantasy. The United Kingdom has a central bank called the Bank of England that can just create new money out of nothing via a process known as Quantitative Easing. Since the global financial sector meltdown of 2007-08 the Bank of England has created £375 billion in this way. When a country has a sovereign central bank that can create new money, the idea that there is "no money left" is economic baby talk.

One of the things that this Tory reliance upon the "no money left" arguments illustrates is the incredible selectivity of the Tory mind. It seems that they have perfect recall of events in 2010 when it comes to stupid joke notes left in the treasury by an embodiment of uselessness like Liam Byrne, but when it comes to all of the promises and predictions made by Tory politicians back in 2010, they've managed to completely forget.

They can remember Liam Byrne's stupid note perfectly, but they can't seem to remember stuff like George Osborne promising not to raise VAT (then raising it just 2 months later), David Cameron promising "no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS" (then launching the biggest top-down reorganisation in the entire history of the NHS) and they can't remember George Osborne predicting his ideological austerity experiment would have completely eliminated the deficit by now (it hasn't even been halved).

Whenever you hear anyone use Liam Byrne's "there's no money" note as the crux of their economic argument, you can be absolutely sure that you're communicating with someone who is an economic illiterate who prefers to rote learn their opinions about the economy from the pages of the right-wing press in lieu of making the slightest effort to actually understand economic issues for themselves.

[Link]

Typical liberal lefty elitist boll1cks. "if you dont agree with us you're to stupid to understand". Guess what vast swaithes of the electorate understood all to well that labour policy an the economy had us going to hell in a hand cart and had enough.

Not stupid, just not blinkered.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Sportyteacher's Profile Sportyteacher Flag London 13 Mar 16 3.42pm Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Originally posted by becky

Funny coincidence.....I was just reading about that this morning

[Link]


And who trusts the Daily Mail....the paper guilty of more court settlements than any other news paper re: mistruths

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Mar 16 4.07pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Fullerer details here...

One of the most oft repeated "economic" arguments posited by Tory party supporters is the "didn't Labour leave a note admitting there was no money left?" question, which is often used in conjunction with the absurdly counter-factual "Labour bankrupted Britain" narrative.

The first thing to note about this question is that the note that was left by Liam Byrne saying that "there's no money" was intended as a joke, not as a serious statement of fact. The joke being a reiteration of the 1965 note left by the Tory Chancellor Reginald Maudling for his successor Jim Callaghan that said "good luck old cock, sorry to leave it in a mess".

If the crux of your economic argument is a joke note written five years ago by a fool like Liam Byrne, then it's absolutely clear that you don't have the faintest regard for genuine economic analysis, and prefer to rote learn economic fairy stories from the employees of right wing press barons like Rupert Murdoch (S*n, Times, Sky TV), Jonathan Harmsworth (Daily Mail, Metro), the Barclay brothers (Telegraph, Spectator) and RIchard Desmond (Express, Star).

It's hard to believe that anyone could be credulous enough to believe that the proposition that "there's no money" was an accurate one rather than a joke, but apparently lots of Tory supporters do, and even use it as the keystone of their argument in favour of reelecting the Conservatives!

It's hard to not feel like I'm being patronising in explaining what is to come in the next paragraph, but there are apparently a heck of a lot of Tories out there who honestly don't seem to understand this stuff.

The idea that there ever was "no money left" is a childlike fantasy. The United Kingdom has a central bank called the Bank of England that can just create new money out of nothing via a process known as Quantitative Easing. Since the global financial sector meltdown of 2007-08 the Bank of England has created £375 billion in this way. When a country has a sovereign central bank that can create new money, the idea that there is "no money left" is economic baby talk.

One of the things that this Tory reliance upon the "no money left" arguments illustrates is the incredible selectivity of the Tory mind. It seems that they have perfect recall of events in 2010 when it comes to stupid joke notes left in the treasury by an embodiment of uselessness like Liam Byrne, but when it comes to all of the promises and predictions made by Tory politicians back in 2010, they've managed to completely forget.

They can remember Liam Byrne's stupid note perfectly, but they can't seem to remember stuff like George Osborne promising not to raise VAT (then raising it just 2 months later), David Cameron promising "no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS" (then launching the biggest top-down reorganisation in the entire history of the NHS) and they can't remember George Osborne predicting his ideological austerity experiment would have completely eliminated the deficit by now (it hasn't even been halved).

Whenever you hear anyone use Liam Byrne's "there's no money" note as the crux of their economic argument, you can be absolutely sure that you're communicating with someone who is an economic illiterate who prefers to rote learn their opinions about the economy from the pages of the right-wing press in lieu of making the slightest effort to actually understand economic issues for themselves.

[Link]


But really, the fact that the numbers were far worse than anyone outside the Treasury and Ministers realised, isn't funny is it?

 

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View Sportyteacher's Profile Sportyteacher Flag London 13 Mar 16 4.42pm Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Fullerer details here...

One of the most oft repeated "economic" arguments posited by Tory party supporters is the "didn't Labour leave a note admitting there was no money left?" question, which is often used in conjunction with the absurdly counter-factual "Labour bankrupted Britain" narrative.

The first thing to note about this question is that the note that was left by Liam Byrne saying that "there's no money" was intended as a joke, not as a serious statement of fact. The joke being a reiteration of the 1965 note left by the Tory Chancellor Reginald Maudling for his successor Jim Callaghan that said "good luck old cock, sorry to leave it in a mess".

If the crux of your economic argument is a joke note written five years ago by a fool like Liam Byrne, then it's absolutely clear that you don't have the faintest regard for genuine economic analysis, and prefer to rote learn economic fairy stories from the employees of right wing press barons like Rupert Murdoch (S*n, Times, Sky TV), Jonathan Harmsworth (Daily Mail, Metro), the Barclay brothers (Telegraph, Spectator) and RIchard Desmond (Express, Star).

It's hard to believe that anyone could be credulous enough to believe that the proposition that "there's no money" was an accurate one rather than a joke, but apparently lots of Tory supporters do, and even use it as the keystone of their argument in favour of reelecting the Conservatives!

It's hard to not feel like I'm being patronising in explaining what is to come in the next paragraph, but there are apparently a heck of a lot of Tories out there who honestly don't seem to understand this stuff.

The idea that there ever was "no money left" is a childlike fantasy. The United Kingdom has a central bank called the Bank of England that can just create new money out of nothing via a process known as Quantitative Easing. Since the global financial sector meltdown of 2007-08 the Bank of England has created £375 billion in this way. When a country has a sovereign central bank that can create new money, the idea that there is "no money left" is economic baby talk.

One of the things that this Tory reliance upon the "no money left" arguments illustrates is the incredible selectivity of the Tory mind. It seems that they have perfect recall of events in 2010 when it comes to stupid joke notes left in the treasury by an embodiment of uselessness like Liam Byrne, but when it comes to all of the promises and predictions made by Tory politicians back in 2010, they've managed to completely forget.

They can remember Liam Byrne's stupid note perfectly, but they can't seem to remember stuff like George Osborne promising not to raise VAT (then raising it just 2 months later), David Cameron promising "no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS" (then launching the biggest top-down reorganisation in the entire history of the NHS) and they can't remember George Osborne predicting his ideological austerity experiment would have completely eliminated the deficit by now (it hasn't even been halved).

Whenever you hear anyone use Liam Byrne's "there's no money" note as the crux of their economic argument, you can be absolutely sure that you're communicating with someone who is an economic illiterate who prefers to rote learn their opinions about the economy from the pages of the right-wing press in lieu of making the slightest effort to actually understand economic issues for themselves.

[Link]

Ahhh...the very Tory press barons still not paying their tax. Add to Barclay Bros. 'The Ritz' that they own where Thatcher spent her final months and ...hey ho, no tax again either.

 

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Hoof Hearted 14 Mar 16 9.50am

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

And who trusts the Daily Mail....the paper guilty of more court settlements than any other news paper re: mistruths

I notice you never mentioned my link in the first post from the Guardian - saying pretty much the same stuff about this as the Daily Mail.

I used the Guardian link because I knew lefty dreamers like you would have criticised my source if it was a right wing paper and I was right wasn't I.

Priceless........

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 14 Mar 16 11.37am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

In large part due to the Tories in the previous administrations.

See how easy it is?

Probably true to an extent, given that New Labour adopted a right of centre position, and favoured corporations over the electorate.

However, one could argue, if the Conservatives were doing such a good job, they wouldn't have suffered such a humiliating defeat in 1997.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 14 Mar 16 11.40am

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Hmmm. By the time of the next election, George Osbourne will have been in control of the economy for 10 years.

Perhaps time for the Tories to stand on their own merits, perhaps?

Let's see how far that would get them.

Notably, in that 10 year period, the Conservatives would probably rank far behind Gordon Brown's period in the treasury. Credit where credits due, one of the countries longest periods of economic prosperity was under New Labour.

Then again, the myth of generations, is that Government actually have any control over the economy of the UK, at best they have minor influence - arguably New Labour just did what the Conservatives did, and will do, appeal to the financial markets and corporations over the needs of the electorate.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Hoof Hearted 14 Mar 16 11.53am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Notably, in that 10 year period, the Conservatives would probably rank far behind Gordon Brown's period in the treasury. Credit where credits due, one of the countries longest periods of economic prosperity was under New Labour.

Then again, the myth of generations, is that Government actually have any control over the economy of the UK, at best they have minor influence - arguably New Labour just did what the Conservatives did, and will do, appeal to the financial markets and corporations over the needs of the electorate.

To quote Willo... that is "Hogwash".

Brown inherited the most favourable economic conditions of any Chancellor taking over yet failed to capitalise on those conditions.

At the end of his spell (and Darlings brief tenure) the UK had more debt from overspending than ever before. All the hospitals and schools built under New Labour were done on credit -on unfavourable terms and it is this that is crippling us now.

Brown was a disastrous Chancellor and an even worse PM.

He couldn't even get the removal of the 10% band of tax right - not realising that by removing it he was hitting the poorest paid, but thought reducing the 25% band to 20% would compensate everybody.

Luckily the majority of voters know not to trust Labour with the economy and are not fooled by lame excuses and claims for periods of prosperity that wasn't down to them and achieved despite their incompetence.

 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 14 Mar 16 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

To quote Willo... that is "Hogwash".

Brown inherited the most favourable economic conditions of any Chancellor taking over yet failed to capitalise on those conditions.

At the end of his spell (and Darlings brief tenure) the UK had more debt from overspending than ever before. All the hospitals and schools built under New Labour were done on credit -on unfavourable terms and it is this that is crippling us now.

Brown was a disastrous Chancellor and an even worse PM.

He couldn't even get the removal of the 10% band of tax right - not realising that by removing it he was hitting the poorest paid, but thought reducing the 25% band to 20% would compensate everybody.

Luckily the majority of voters know not to trust Labour with the economy and are not fooled by lame excuses and claims for periods of prosperity that wasn't down to them and achieved despite their incompetence.

To say nothing of the debacle surrounding the sale of gold.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 14 Mar 16 12.49pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

To say nothing of the debacle surrounding the sale of gold.

Definitely agree with that, it was a mistake, but hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Problem I always had with New Labour, it couldn't be honest about balancing the books, and used the old tory approach of pretending you can have more without cost.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 14 Mar 16 12.57pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

To quote Willo... that is "Hogwash".

Brown inherited the most favourable economic conditions of any Chancellor taking over yet failed to capitalise on those conditions.

At the end of his spell (and Darlings brief tenure) the UK had more debt from overspending than ever before. All the hospitals and schools built under New Labour were done on credit -on unfavourable terms and it is this that is crippling us now.

Brown was a disastrous Chancellor and an even worse PM.

He couldn't even get the removal of the 10% band of tax right - not realising that by removing it he was hitting the poorest paid, but thought reducing the 25% band to 20% would compensate everybody.

Luckily the majority of voters know not to trust Labour with the economy and are not fooled by lame excuses and claims for periods of prosperity that wasn't down to them and achieved despite their incompetence.

Ah its all the tories hard work. So why did they do so badly at the General election. The voters clearly were wrong then, but now are right? The mistake has always been to believe that political parties in the UK have the best interests of the public and country at heart.

Its so lucky that the Conservatives had done so well at hitting their fiscal targets, and eliminating deficit, bringing down spending and so on. I wouldn't trust them with the economy either.

In terms of the PFI schemes, I'm inclined to agree, it wasn't a great plan, but the successive cuts and under spending by government over the previous decade created a massive problem that hadn't been addressed. Plus PFI also injected a massive boost into the UK tech industry - I'm surprised so many Conservative Voters regard PFI as something terrible, I'm pretty sure they benefited from it.

The problem of course, was it was more false economics, because ultimately it had to be paid for.

But then we're now back into the rounds of cuts with the promise of 'no impact on services' nonsense, as absurd to me as the idea that you can fund services without paying for them.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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