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Letter to the Elves

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View Lucas Oliver's Profile Lucas Oliver Flag Miles away 07 Dec 17 11.15pm Send a Private Message to Lucas Oliver Add Lucas Oliver as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I bet the kids in your life really enjoy Christmas.

They do, still got a believer in the ranks

 


Nope it's not my name

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View HeathMan's Profile HeathMan Flag Purley 07 Dec 17 11.25pm Send a Private Message to HeathMan Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add HeathMan as a friend

How about saying we don’t work for God we work for Santa Claus. But Santa tells us that God is real.

This should do the job.

 

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Park Road Flag 08 Dec 17 4.22am

Originally posted by chateauferret

Science does not disprove God. Go and read the space thread and the stuff I put there about elements heavier than nitrogen coming (only) from supernovae and then tell me there is no God. Well, Creator, if you prefer.

"The belief in a an omnipresent being with supernatural powers and a big white beard, who keeps a note of all the good and bad things that you have done, rewards you for good behaviour and never ever answers your communication, is believed by children but not adults....."

That's not God; that's Santa Claus. And you don't tell children that any of the following don't exist (decreasing order of likelihood):

- God
- Santa Claus
- Conor Wickham

Edited by chateauferret (07 Dec 2017 11.09pm)

I never said it did. Science also can't disprove the existence of Santa clause,toothfaries, elves etc..doesn't mean they exist. As for elements being heavier etc..are you saying this proves or that it is even possible a creator exists.
I would say no its not evidence and to quote hitchings : What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Who created the Creator?

Edited by Park Road (08 Dec 2017 4.31am)

Edited by Park Road (08 Dec 2017 5.25am)

 

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 08 Dec 17 6.56am Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Originally posted by HeathMan

How about saying we don’t work for God we work for Santa Claus. But Santa tells us that God is real.

This should do the job.

Thanks. I feel this approach would require me to believe myself, which I don't. I look into my heart (actually i dont think we have those metaphorical hearts containing mystic answers but you get the idea) and find no deep-down belief there. I'd like to truly believe. It would be a comfort and a guiding hand in difficult times when my flesh and bone lacks answers to life's toils. Maybe I'd be a better person.

I've tried to believe in god. I envy those who do. But my deep, deep down belief is that we randomly got here. Once we evolved to have a consciousness, it was inevitable that some would wonder about a higher being and religion/faith would be the result.

So while I want to perpetuate the myth of Father Christmas and his helpers (for his mum as much as anything else) for a few years, I would have deep reservations about using that loving deception to trick him into believing in god.

I suppose I want him to get his own beliefs. He wants to be christened. I've said I'll take him to church 5 times and if he still wants to be christened (or do I mean baptised?)...all good.

The other week he wanted to go up to London to see if we could find god.

So The Elves have a big responsibility.

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 08 Dec 17 8.51am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

Thanks. I feel this approach would require me to believe myself, which I don't. I look into my heart (actually i dont think we have those metaphorical hearts containing mystic answers but you get the idea) and find no deep-down belief there. I'd like to truly believe. It would be a comfort and a guiding hand in difficult times when my flesh and bone lacks answers to life's toils. Maybe I'd be a better person.

I've tried to believe in god. I envy those who do. But my deep, deep down belief is that we randomly got here. Once we evolved to have a consciousness, it was inevitable that some would wonder about a higher being and religion/faith would be the result.

So while I want to perpetuate the myth of Father Christmas and his helpers (for his mum as much as anything else) for a few years, I would have deep reservations about using that loving deception to trick him into believing in god.

I suppose I want him to get his own beliefs. He wants to be christened. I've said I'll take him to church 5 times and if he still wants to be christened (or do I mean baptised?)...all good.

The other week he wanted to go up to London to see if we could find god.

So The Elves have a big responsibility.

You do mean baptised. Are you now an Elf denyier then.

Regardless of your beliefs going to Church is unlikely to do anything but good. You meet nice people, have a good old sing song and get to learn some decent philosophy.

 

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Park Road Flag 08 Dec 17 9.03am

Originally posted by Mapletree

You do mean baptised. Are you now an Elf denyier then.

Regardless of your beliefs going to Church is unlikely to do anything but good. You meet nice people, have a good old sing song and get to learn some decent philosophy.


To be fair mapletree you could say the same thing about a library, where you are not restricted to one form of philosophy but open to a whole spectrum of knowledge.
Although, I don't think a sing song would be permitted.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Dec 17 2.57pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

why did water coalesce here...random I guess.

but beyond that, why did it contain life? where did that very first life/organism come from? what caused it to be in the rest of the matter?

things like that do make me question my beliefs. but not to the extent I would believe in any conventional religion and I still instinctively think: nah.

so far, we are insisting little wig writes to Elfin, Dave or Mariella. he's yet to do so.

Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (07 Dec 2017 6.48am)

Ah, abiogenesis, now there is a very complicated, and difficult branch of biological science, which has no definitive conclusion (what with dealing with an event that occurred 3.77-4.4bn years ago). I struggle to understand this s**t.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Dec 17 3.03pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

isn't the belief that science answers everything also blind faith?

Only if you don't understand scientific theory. Science offers models and theories, with supporting evidence, towards presenting 'probable models' of reality and occurrence, where as faith operates on the basis of belief, against evidence to the contrary.

As such, science isn't in the business of belief, but hypothesis testing. You can't really believe in science having the answers, you have to accept that the evidence presented creates highly plausible explanations (ideally, that are repeatable).


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Dec 17 3.05pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

You do mean baptised. Are you now an Elf denyier then.

Regardless of your beliefs going to Church is unlikely to do anything but good. You meet nice people, have a good old sing song and get to learn some decent philosophy.

Technically, its theology, rather than philosophy. Although theology can be informed from philosophy, theology forms the basis of church and religion, rather than philosophy.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 08 Dec 17 4.04pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Only if you don't understand scientific theory. Science offers models and theories, with supporting evidence, towards presenting 'probable models' of reality and occurrence, where as faith operates on the basis of belief, against evidence to the contrary.

As such, science isn't in the business of belief, but hypothesis testing. You can't really believe in science having the answers, you have to accept that the evidence presented creates highly plausible explanations (ideally, that are repeatable).


What I'm clumsily trying to say is that, in practice, non-believers quite often find god-disproving or god-averse certainties through what they perceive to be science. Whether that's faithful to scientific method is moot. They do and that's all I'm really saying.

But I'll be honest here and admit that I do a bit. So I'm no better.

Specifically, evolution (the theory of which I regard as scientific). I don't know where that very first life form on Earth came from but from what little I know, I'm pretty comfortable that it likely ultimately led to mankind.

I guess all belief is blind to what it doesn't know, to go a bit Rumsfeldian.


Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (08 Dec 2017 4.28pm)

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Dec 17 5.16pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

What I'm clumsily trying to say is that, in practice, non-believers quite often find god-disproving or god-averse certainties through what they perceive to be science. Whether that's faithful to scientific method is moot. They do and that's all I'm really saying.

But I'll be honest here and admit that I do a bit. So I'm no better.

Specifically, evolution (the theory of which I regard as scientific). I don't know where that very first life form on Earth came from but from what little I know, I'm pretty comfortable that it likely ultimately led to mankind.

I guess all belief is blind to what it doesn't know, to go a bit Rumsfeldian.


Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (08 Dec 2017 4.28pm)

I think the existence of god, as prescribed by religious texts, such as the monotheistic religions, is highly improbable, and the metaphysical claims of such entity are unfounded being both invalid and unreliable in nature.

Also, on the basis of what I know about practice of Abrahamic faiths, the likelihood, is that if such an entity exists, its not worthy of worship (barring the New Testament) the god of these works is probably evil.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 08 Dec 17 7.24pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think the existence of god, as prescribed by religious texts, such as the monotheistic religions, is highly improbable, and the metaphysical claims of such entity are unfounded being both invalid and unreliable in nature.

Also, on the basis of what I know about practice of Abrahamic faiths, the likelihood, is that if such an entity exists, its not worthy of worship (barring the New Testament) the god of these works is probably evil.

see. you agree with me basically. you just know longer words and what they mean.

getting this back in track...the boy's unwell, which has bought us some time. I'll report back when and if this comes to a head.

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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