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  Hrolf The Ganger  17 Dec 17 8.46pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Why the poor old gusset comment? I'm right,some people care more about the perpetrators being Muslim than they do about the crime, otherwise there would be multiple threads about paedophile rings as there is for grooming gangs. I guess it's because stuff like this makes them feel justified in their anti mass immigration stance. Along with the terrorism, organised crime, street crime, bonkers religious practices, female oppression, stagnated wages, housing shortages, terrible music and endless bleating and identity politics.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Dec 17 9.00pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I guess it's because stuff like this makes them feel justified in their anti mass immigration stance. Along with the terrorism, organised crime, street crime, bonkers religious practices, female oppression, stagnated wages, housing shortages, terrible music and endless bleating and identity politics.
Just out of interest, where do you live?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Dec 17 9.19pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Just out of interest, where do you live?
I live a long way from Tooting where you are. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Dec 2017 9.20pm)
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| danny choo choo Hayes 17 Dec 17 10.43pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Problem is, that a lot of your posts seem always to be about Muslims this, Muslims that. Nick isn't saying that there isn't a problem, or that grooming gangs aren't an issue - but that by making it always about Muslims, you're perpetuating an agenda over reality by making generalisations based on a minority - That you have avoided where those generalistations wouldn't fit your agenda. Hence you focus on type 1, because it fits an agenda, and ignoring the details of type 2, because it doesn't - Even though this was evidence in the very first link on the thread. go on say just say it you think I'm an islamaphobic racsist dont you?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Dec 17 10.59pm |
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Originally posted by danny choo choo
go on say just say it you think I'm an islamaphobic racsist dont you? No, I don't. I don't know you or what you believe, only that this is a subject that you're drawn to, and have strong feelings about (notably the relationship between Muslims, terrorism and child grooming). I think its easy for people to become fixated on aspects of situations, because of their personal feelings, without them being an 'ist' of some description.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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cryrst Online  The garden of England 18 Dec 17 6.04am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
No, I don't. I don't know you or what you believe, only that this is a subject that you're drawn to, and have strong feelings about (notably the relationship between Muslims, terrorism and child grooming). I think its easy for people to become fixated on aspects of situations, because of their personal feelings, without them being an 'ist' of some description. The link between Muslims and terrorists.
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| Stirlingsays Online 18 Dec 17 7.44am |
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Society is full of hypocrisy and applies different rules to its different defined 'protected' classes and non protected classes. It's up to its neck in it. Let's compare these 'progressive' attitudes on protecting their 'special' Islamic class and compare it using a football analogy. If the fans of a football club are violent or cause disruption then what does the FA do? Do they say....well, they may be fans of that club but the club hold no responsibility for their behaviour because they don't approve of it......Nope....they say to the club....take action against these fans or we will take action against you....If it happens again, we hold you responsible....They connect the fans with the club they support. But despite Islam in this country having views and attitudes that allow these terrorists to have enclaves of silence and even support.....apparently we are told that the religion here doesn't need to change. The socially conservative doctrines of Islam do need to change here.......and all those that stand against this on both the left and right are in part responsible for all the unrest and no doubt far more violence that later generations will endure. Because this problem wasn't dealt with when the Islamic population was far smaller here....the fallout is going to be far worst down the line. I am bitter about it because my kids will have to be apart of that. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 7.46am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8  Hevon 18 Dec 17 8.10am |
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^^^^ The more important aspect is not so much the 'need to change' as anyone can say that the bleedin' obvious over and over but 'how it changes?' Answer that within a pragmatic framework then at least progressive liberal Muslims will have something to work with. We need more housing, we need less zero hours contracts, etc. We also needs solutions not hot air.
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| Stirlingsays Online 18 Dec 17 8.51am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
^^^^ The more important aspect is not so much the 'need to change' as anyone can say that the bleedin' obvious over and over but 'how it changes?' Answer that within a pragmatic framework then at least progressive liberal Muslims will have something to work with. We need more housing, we need less zero hours contracts, etc. We also needs solutions not hot air. Seriously? Perhaps you actually need to start listening to reformers instead of criticising them when you don't even know what they are saying.....jeepers. I've previously written my solutions multiple times on here....If you are genuinely interested start listening to actual Islamic reformers. I don't believe you are interested in solutions.....as you said Islam will evolve in its own time.....you argue for keeping the status quo. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 8.53am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Dec 17 9.46am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Society is full of hypocrisy and applies different rules to its different defined 'protected' classes and non protected classes. It's up to its neck in it. Let's compare these 'progressive' attitudes on protecting their 'special' Islamic class and compare it using a football analogy. If the fans of a football club are violent or cause disruption then what does the FA do? Do they say....well, they may be fans of that club but the club hold no responsibility for their behaviour because they don't approve of it......Nope....they say to the club....take action against these fans or we will take action against you....If it happens again, we hold you responsible....They connect the fans with the club they support. But despite Islam in this country having views and attitudes that allow these terrorists to have enclaves of silence and even support.....apparently we are told that the religion here doesn't need to change. The socially conservative doctrines of Islam do need to change here.......and all those that stand against this on both the left and right are in part responsible for all the unrest and no doubt far more violence that later generations will endure. Because this problem wasn't dealt with when the Islamic population was far smaller here....the fallout is going to be far worst down the line. I am bitter about it because my kids will have to be apart of that. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 7.46am) Oddly, I do find myself more aligned to your stance than it seems. I support the idea of reformists in Islam, and promoting moderates (such as Ishmali Islam) and focusing on protecting those abroad and promoting them in the UK (as well as showing preference in terms of migration). But we also need to reform how we deal with Islam abroad as well. Its easy to say promote moderate Islam, but then if you go and sell a s**t tonne of weapons to Saudi Arabia and buying their oil.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 18 Dec 17 9.52am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Seriously? Perhaps you actually need to start listening to reformers instead of criticising them when you don't even know what they are saying.....jeepers. I've previously written my solutions multiple times on here....If you are genuinely interested start listening to actual Islamic reformers. I don't believe you are interested in solutions.....as you said Islam will evolve in its own time.....you argue for keeping the status quo. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 8.53am) Obviously not clear enough nor coherent enough. They must have got lost within that tunnel of hot air. Try bullet points.
Edited by Kermit8 (18 Dec 2017 10.38am)
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| Stirlingsays Online 18 Dec 17 10.53am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Oddly, I do find myself more aligned to your stance than it seems. I support the idea of reformists in Islam, and promoting moderates (such as Ishmali Islam) and focusing on protecting those abroad and promoting them in the UK (as well as showing preference in terms of migration). But we also need to reform how we deal with Islam abroad as well. Its easy to say promote moderate Islam, but then if you go and sell a s**t tonne of weapons to Saudi Arabia and buying their oil. Personally I feel that if the movements against integration within Islam can be unpicked then that community can join its other Asian counterparts in enjoying high levels of success within societies....not just this one but in general. Or perhaps I'm conflating the word Asian there with other different Asian cultures that are really only connected by the Asian word.....but we can only wish people well. Our relationship with the house of Saud is one of expediency on both sides. They are extremists compared to us....but they are western facing and frankly I see more movement for change there than I do in say....China. But yes.....The Saudis aren't our friends....They are responsible for their brand of Sunni crap that we have to deal with....though make no mistake, in the UK it's doctrines from pakistan and Bangladesh that are the main issues here. The situation there is an 'enemy of our enemy' situation.......I'm not sure the west not backing sides in the middle east is a good strategy. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 10.54am)
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