Back in the 70's 80's we essentially got rid of miners and were told by them it would kill communities. 40 years on we survived.

With brexit we are told the same for farmers.
If they only exist because of subsidies what is the actual point?

Has brexit just highlighted there is no money in farming?

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couldn't you say the same about a reliance on Russian gas from most of the EU?

Isn't the problem that we can import food from low wage economies with free trade?

Take our selves away from the free trade means we need and must be more self sufficient which means our farmers are earning their money and have a purpose.

Has the EU dragged us down rather than up?
Fishing has been desimated?

Most of the subsidies that farmers receive are for 'set-aside' measures. Basically they are paid by the EU to leave the fields bare of crops (except for silage for their own use)to keep down the stockpiled mountains of stuff that the EU purchases to maintain pre-set prices as per the Common Agricultural Policy.

There has been a lot of investment in alternatives to 'growing things' on farms; agro-tourism and agro-industry for starters, but the fields are still there and can be converted back for food at anytime.

As for selling their lamb and beef in the EU - Europe cannot produce enough of their own to meet demand and, as it will also prove with fish, they will either have to buy from us or import frozen from greater distance suppliers and at additional cost. We export most of our lamb there simply because under the current supply/demand they will take everything they can get from us - it will just cost them a bit more now.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

I'm quite disappointed that this thread is not a debate about who would win a fight between miners and farmers.

The closure of the coal mines DID kill whole communities. The mining towns of the north, of Wales and even parts of Kent were decimated by those closures.

Even now they are mostly run down areas of high unemployment, social deprevation and poverty.

If by 'we,' you mean London, the South East or areas where there were not mines of course they survived. Take a wander round other parts of the country and many will disagree with you.

Edited by orpingtoneagle (11 Jul 2018 9.59pm)

Edited by orpingtoneagle (11 Jul 2018 10.00pm)

Farms aren’t just production lines. You could make the land more productive by moving to huge agribusinesses. The effect historically has been soil degrading, less attractive countryside, blocking of accesses to the countryside as an amenity and growth of cash crops to the detriment of more balanced farming.

Part of the reason for the CAP for all its flaws was to protect communities from faceless and detrimental capitalism

But hey, if you don’t like hedgerows and small farms you campaign for removal of subsidies.

You only have to look at the Scottish Highlands to observe the expulsion of communities in favour of huge offshore leisure businesses to see the effects. Desertion of areas previously thriving with mad bekilted Jocks. But lovely shooting for the Yanks and mega income for the 500 people that own half of Scotland. Yes, really.