Defending Labour on IHRA

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Stirlingsays 23 Jul 18 10.05am
Now I've always been pro the modern day existence of Israel. However, I really have to say something about the ridiculous standards the Jewish activist lobbies have set for western countries in respect to criticising it. Labour and Corbyn are currently being attacked for not signing up to the IHRA's ( International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) 'working definition' of anti-Semitism. Let's look at a summary of what Labour are being criticised for not signing up to: Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis I have to say......what on earth is this?!!!! This amounts to basically saying you can't criticise the nation of Israel because that's anti semitic. These are standards that prohibit free speech and while I might have sympathy for the last line I fine the others incredible. Imagine these standards had been in place for South Africa.....Or indeed say Iran or any other country. As I said I'm reasonably pro Israel but I'm definitely anti restrictions on free speech......This is granting one country special privileges over all other countries on speech. Are rules like this imposed on parties in Israel about other countries? Nope and nor should it....this is too much. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 10.44am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Jul 18 10.05am

Now I've always been pro the modern day existence of Israel.

However, I really have to say something about the ridiculous standards the Jewish activist lobbies have set for western countries in respect to criticising it.

Labour and Corbyn are currently being attacked for not signing up to the IHRA's ( International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) 'working definition' of anti-Semitism. Let's look at a summary of what Labour are being criticised for not signing up to:

Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country
Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour
Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations
Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis

I have to say......what on earth is this?!!!!

This amounts to basically saying you can't criticise the nation of Israel because that's anti semitic.

These are standards that prohibit free speech and while I might have sympathy for the last line I fine the others incredible.

Imagine these standards had been in place for South Africa.....Or indeed say Iran or any other country.

As I said I'm reasonably pro Israel but I'm definitely anti restrictions on free speech......This is granting one country special privileges over all other countries on speech.

Are rules like this imposed on parties in Israel about other countries? Nope and nor should it....this is too much.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 10.44am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Jul 18 11.23am
As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do. Totally loony. It is the control of 'truth'.
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Jul 18 11.23am

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As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do.

Totally loony.

It is the control of 'truth'.

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silvertop Portishead 23 Jul 18 12.21pm
Good heavens Sterling I agree every word of your post! Can we lock this one now for posterity's sake?
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silvertop

Portishead 23 Jul 18 12.21pm

Good heavens Sterling I agree every word of your post!

Can we lock this one now for posterity's sake?

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elgrande bedford 23 Jul 18 1.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Now I've always been pro the modern day existence of Israel. However, I really have to say something about the ridiculous standards the Jewish activist lobbies have set for western countries in respect to criticising it. Labour and Corbyn are currently being attacked for not signing up to the IHRA's ( International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) 'working definition' of anti-Semitism. Let's look at a summary of what Labour are being criticised for not signing up to: Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis I have to say......what on earth is this?!!!! This amounts to basically saying you can't criticise the nation of Israel because that's anti semitic. These are standards that prohibit free speech and while I might have sympathy for the last line I fine the others incredible. Imagine these standards had been in place for South Africa.....Or indeed say Iran or any other country. As I said I'm reasonably pro Israel but I'm definitely anti restrictions on free speech......This is granting one country special privileges over all other countries on speech. Are rules like this imposed on parties in Israel about other countries? Nope and nor should it....this is too much. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 10.44am) Good post,on the whole I agree. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 23 Jul 18 1.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Now I've always been pro the modern day existence of Israel.

However, I really have to say something about the ridiculous standards the Jewish activist lobbies have set for western countries in respect to criticising it.

I have to say......what on earth is this?!!!!

This amounts to basically saying you can't criticise the nation of Israel because that's anti semitic.

These are standards that prohibit free speech and while I might have sympathy for the last line I fine the others incredible.

Imagine these standards had been in place for South Africa.....Or indeed say Iran or any other country.

As I said I'm reasonably pro Israel but I'm definitely anti restrictions on free speech......This is granting one country special privileges over all other countries on speech.

Are rules like this imposed on parties in Israel about other countries? Nope and nor should it....this is too much.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 10.44am)

Good post,on the whole I agree.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 23 Jul 18 1.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do. Totally loony. It is the control of 'truth'. Ironically, but for the Holocaust, there very likely wouldn't have been a State of Israel in the first place. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 23 Jul 18 1.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do.

Totally loony.

It is the control of 'truth'.

Ironically, but for the Holocaust, there very likely wouldn't have been a State of Israel in the first place.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Mapletree Croydon 23 Jul 18 2.31pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do. Totally loony. It is the control of 'truth'. Crikey, I too agree with both Stirling and Hrolf This could be a breakthrough moment I was only saying over the porridge this morning I wonder what it is that Labour wouldn't sign up to. It seems to me that when Labour didn't address the Jewish issue at an earlier point and with more vigour, they ended up seriously on the back foot. Now they just have to bend over, even for the most extreme views.
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Mapletree

Croydon 23 Jul 18 2.31pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As I have always said. It is basically using the Holocaust to justify anything Israel or Israelis do.

Totally loony.

It is the control of 'truth'.

Crikey, I too agree with both Stirling and Hrolf

This could be a breakthrough moment

I was only saying over the porridge this morning I wonder what it is that Labour wouldn't sign up to. It seems to me that when Labour didn't address the Jewish issue at an earlier point and with more vigour, they ended up seriously on the back foot. Now they just have to bend over, even for the most extreme views.

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becky over the moon 23 Jul 18 2.46pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Crikey, I too agree with both Stirling and Hrolf This could be a breakthrough moment I take it a group hug is still out of the question though? A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 23 Jul 18 2.46pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Crikey, I too agree with both Stirling and Hrolf

This could be a breakthrough moment

I take it a group hug is still out of the question though?

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Stirlingsays 23 Jul 18 2.51pm
Labour should stick up for their principles. Criticising Israel is not anti semitic...it's taking the idea way too far. I thought this was about things like calling for its destruction, but we can see from these points that it goes way beyond that....these activist lobbies want to close down and restrict speech on Israel to only positive speech. I regard this nonsense as part of the wider nonsense of 'hate' speech where anything negative is reframed in this way. It's just the natural progression. No group within any society should be allowed to control speech about itself. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 2.52pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Jul 18 2.51pm

Labour should stick up for their principles. Criticising Israel is not anti semitic...it's taking the idea way too far. I thought this was about things like calling for its destruction, but we can see from these points that it goes way beyond that....these activist lobbies want to close down and restrict speech on Israel to only positive speech.

I regard this nonsense as part of the wider nonsense of 'hate' speech where anything negative is reframed in this way. It's just the natural progression.

No group within any society should be allowed to control speech about itself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 2.52pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Strolling bones Hastings 24 Jul 18 10.11am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Labour should stick up for their principles. Criticising Israel is not anti semitic...it's taking the idea way too far. I thought this was about things like calling for its destruction, but we can see from these points that it goes way beyond that....these activist lobbies want to close down and restrict speech on Israel to only positive speech. I regard this nonsense as part of the wider nonsense of 'hate' speech where anything negative is reframed in this way. It's just the natural progression. No group within any society should be allowed to control speech about itself. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 2.52pm) Agree with all of that . But for me , before labour can have a valid opinion on Israel and it foibles, it needs to get it's own house in order to get any credibility on the subject. The rancid anti semtism within it seriously degrades any official line it comes out with
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Strolling bones

Hastings 24 Jul 18 10.11am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I regard this nonsense as part of the wider nonsense of 'hate' speech where anything negative is reframed in this way. It's just the natural progression.

No group within any society should be allowed to control speech about itself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jul 2018 2.52pm)

Agree with all of that . But for me , before labour can have a valid opinion on Israel and it foibles, it needs to get it's own house in order to get any credibility on the subject. The rancid anti semtism within it seriously degrades any official line it comes out with

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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 24 Jul 18 10.23am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Ironically, but for the Holocaust, there very likely wouldn't have been a State of Israel in the first place. This is the sort of comment that Ken Livingston would make and would be accused of being anti semetic. It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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topcat

Holmesdale / Surbiton 24 Jul 18 10.23am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Ironically, but for the Holocaust, there very likely wouldn't have been a State of Israel in the first place.

This is the sort of comment that Ken Livingston would make and would be accused of being anti semetic.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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Only 10 a year!! 24 Jul 18 11.20am
Originally posted by topcat This is the sort of comment that Ken Livingston would make and would be accused of being anti semetic. Yes but he would do it in a very annoyingly nasally way.
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Only 10 a year!!

24 Jul 18 11.20am

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Originally posted by topcat

This is the sort of comment that Ken Livingston would make and would be accused of being anti semetic.

Yes but he would do it in a very annoyingly nasally way.

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Stirlingsays 24 Jul 18 12.25pm
Originally posted by Strolling bones Agree with all of that . But for me , before labour can have a valid opinion on Israel and it foibles, it needs to get it's own house in order to get any credibility on the subject. The rancid anti semtism within it seriously degrades any official line it comes out with Agreed, we all know how many in the far left feel about Israel, especially the younger ones. That said signing the IHRA is completely bonkers. Criticism isn't anti semitic, yet that's what signing up to the IHRA would mean. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Jul 18 12.25pm

Originally posted by Strolling bones

Agreed, we all know how many in the far left feel about Israel, especially the younger ones.

That said signing the IHRA is completely bonkers. Criticism isn't anti semitic, yet that's what signing up to the IHRA would mean.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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