too far apart you might as well claim that the Black Death was the main reason.

I have no time for the crutch of religon, but no we had periods of zealotry post the reformation. I would suggest the prime mover was the birth of capitalism and the drive for money via overseas trade.

None of it would have happened had we stayed under the control of Catholic Rome.
Look at Catholic countries now? How are they doing?
Spain stole all their money and Ireland was modernised by English influence. South America? Oh dear.

I was talking population but if you want to go with MPs.

Are they getting more influence than the less than 3% of MPs they represent? And nearly 40% of them don't even take their place in the house of commons.

Both are seeking what is in their best interests, which is not surprising. It's got nothing to do with being proportional.

Blimey you don't half go off track following your anti everybody agendas.

As far as I am aware, to date being keen on the EU has not been classed as a religion. Which is a shame because there could then have been a way to use the law courts to attack this madness.

Control is an interesting word. To some extent we have to fall into line with the other 27 countries to be part of the bloc. But, here's the thing. To trade with the US we have to fall into line as well, I remember the amount of work Sarbanes Oxley forced everyone to do. It's a globalisation thing, not unique to being within the EU. And at least being within the EU brings additional benefits.

They are influential now because of the nature of the coalition, but if you’re talking about their influence generally in the House of Commons, i’d say it’s roughly proportional, yes.

Of course everyone is seeking their best interests, but it’s about how much they are listened to.

The thread is about disproportionate influence of an industry, so to say it’s nothing to do with proportional is quite strange.

Maintaining a status quo regarding Northern Ireland is crucial, without it people will die again. This involves 1.875 million people in Northern Ireland and affects us all.

By contrast, commercial fishing employs fewer than 10,000 people.

Why they are even mentioned in the same breath is a question we should be asking, which is why I did. It simply plays to populism and totally ignores how the fishermen themselves have contributed to the reduction in their industry.

Edited by Mapletree (16 Nov 2018 4.47pm)