Well good luck to them but I would have liked the report to clarify how they were offered places.

Back in the 1970's I applied to Cambridge University, as well as having to get good grades at A level I had to sit an entrance exam. My school had never done this and I failed it because they didn't prepare me and I wasn't bright enough. However schools that took that route spent a year preparing for the entrance exam whilst I had a couple of weeks.

Anyway no excuses I wasn't good enough my point is if they passed entrance exams then it doesn't matter what colour they were or what their background they got their by merit and well done them.

There were other routes into Cambridge which were not as equitable "my father knows your father" etc. I have no idea if that still goes on today.

Anyway if they got their by merit I wish them luck and just wished the journalist had spelled that out.

Edited by Badger11 (18 Jan 2019 8.10am)

Edited by Badger11 (18 Jan 2019 8.12am)

It's so much more grey than this.

If we accept that institutional racism and sexism exist and have been embedded into society over decades -- and maybe you simply do not believe that, but I do -- then an injustice has been done to large groups of people.

I am not in favour of absurd rules that favour idiots over smart people, but can I stomach a little 'let's favour this woman', 'let's favour this black bloke' if all else is equal.

I see this in my own workplace where women -- who do tend to earn less than men -- are getting bigger bumps and PERHAPS get more appreciation of their performance. I even think I've suffered from it in terms of career progression.

I don't love it, but I kind of think fair enough.

Just to repeat, though, that over promotion of idiots isn't my thing. And if these school kids are way below the standard...that's unacceptable.

Lets hypothesise that you are wealthy and want the best for your kids.

do you :

a) send them to Dulwich College ?

or

b) send them to that free school just a few hundred yards away, toward Tulse Hill ?

what will get them to study at a good Uni ?

Sterling...

You may dislike the term institutional racism and fair enough, it was lazy. but do black people do less well in job applications, and do women get less money than men for the same job?

I simply believe they do. You may not. But I hire people and have first hand experience of how these things go in practice.

As for 'a little bit' (and it's to redress racism and sexism, and even social background)...let me take it to an extreme...

Eton boy, daddy had to earn half a mill to educate him, and he gets 0.000001% better academic/appplication results than the son of a convict & dirt poor single mum who, despite all the odds has kept his nose clean and excelled in the shytest education environment in the country, with violence all around him.

I can't help but want the poor kid to get the nod and think that's right. He has the merit in this meritocracy. Not the rich kid who had every possible help.

You either support meritocracy or you don't.

You either place someone's ability ahead of the colour of someone's skin or you don't.

Essentially you have made statements here that show that you support affirmative action.

I criticise it for the reasons I've stated and support those who sue for how it has disadvantaged them over their race.

Now in my view you make valid points about class advantage and we would probably agree about some aspects of that.

However, affirmative action is most definitely not the answer to that sore.

For me meritocracy and innate IQ must override all......So I'd abolish private schools which were based upon subject knowledge and base them purely on innate IQ.....Essentially looking to avoid advantage by class.

Now, I'd agree that this still leaves a problem over how society treats the less genetically gifted....which would still hit the poorest more due to the higher number of less successful genes....and there are valid concerns there....but they are different questions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jan 2019 9.25pm)

I'd agree with you that some aspects are complex topics......though it can be seen here where we disagree on fundamental issues.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jan 2019 10.05pm)