SKY Sports' obsession with racism.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 19 3.26pm
Danny Rose, for argument's sake, earns more than 50 grand a week. He probably has several posh cars, a plush house and a model wife or girlfriend. That being the case, if I were him, I reckon I could handle some rapey Montenegrin making monkey noises in my general direction. We also won 1-5. This seems pretty pointless. England are hardly going to change the casual racism in Montenegro - or many other backwater, backwards places in Europe and beyond. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 19 3.26pm

Danny Rose, for argument's sake, earns more than 50 grand a week. He probably has several posh cars, a plush house and a model wife or girlfriend.
That being the case, if I were him, I reckon I could handle some rapey Montenegrin making monkey noises in my general direction.
We also won 1-5. This seems pretty pointless.
England are hardly going to change the casual racism in Montenegro - or many other backwater, backwards places in Europe and beyond.

Red and Blue Army!

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Mar 19 3.28pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's a reasonable criticism....I was reacting to the idea that you can just 'educate' people. My attitude to this kind of thing is old school and not perfect...you tolerate the idiots as long as they keep to themselves....that is obviously not the current cultural zeitgeist......Instead we just get differing levels of moral outrage with lots of people using words like 'unacceptable', 'education' and 'ban'. People need to come to terms with the reality that no one can or should be able to control large groups of people. In my view if the 'idiot' fan section of these out matched football teams are too morally repugnant for the feelings of the football institutions....then play in empty stadiums. Segregation.....which is what always happens one way or another. My view is if there are people who think it is ok to make monkey noises at a black player, then some moral outrage is perfectly justifiable - I won’t make any apologies for using words like ‘unacceptable’ when discussing an incident like that. Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Mar 19 3.28pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's a reasonable criticism....I was reacting to the idea that you can just 'educate' people.

My attitude to this kind of thing is old school and not perfect...you tolerate the idiots as long as they keep to themselves....that is obviously not the current cultural zeitgeist......Instead we just get differing levels of moral outrage with lots of people using words like 'unacceptable', 'education' and 'ban'.

People need to come to terms with the reality that no one can or should be able to control large groups of people.

In my view if the 'idiot' fan section of these out matched football teams are too morally repugnant for the feelings of the football institutions....then play in empty stadiums.

Segregation.....which is what always happens one way or another.

My view is if there are people who think it is ok to make monkey noises at a black player, then some moral outrage is perfectly justifiable - I won’t make any apologies for using words like ‘unacceptable’ when discussing an incident like that.

Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Mar 19 3.32pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Danny Rose, for argument's sake, earns more than 50 grand a week. He probably has several posh cars, a plush house and a model wife or girlfriend. That being the case, if I were him, I reckon I could handle some rapey Montenegrin making monkey noises in my general direction. We also won 1-5. This seems pretty pointless. England are hardly going to change the casual racism in Montenegro - or many other backwater, backwards places in Europe and beyond. Whenever someone uses a players’ salary to justify this sort of thing, I can’t help but switch off completely. The idea that rich people are fair game for any type of abuse, because they’re rich, is just so silly it’s difficult to comprehend.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Mar 19 3.32pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Whenever someone uses a players’ salary to justify this sort of thing, I can’t help but switch off completely.

The idea that rich people are fair game for any type of abuse, because they’re rich, is just so silly it’s difficult to comprehend.

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Mar 19 3.35pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow My view is if there are people who think it is ok to make monkey noises at a black player, then some moral outrage is perfectly justifiable - I won’t make any apologies for using words like ‘unacceptable’ when discussing an incident like that. Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone. Do you not think that there is a huge disproportion between how we handle racial abuse and other abuse already? Should the severity of abuse not be measured by the effect it has on the victim and not by politics? Abuse occurs at football, in the playground and online every day. We have sectarianism in Scotland which barely gets a mention. Are we really saying that making a special case for Black footballers is proportionate and reasonable?
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Mar 19 3.35pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone.

Do you not think that there is a huge disproportion between how we handle racial abuse and other abuse already?

Should the severity of abuse not be measured by the effect it has on the victim and not by politics?

Abuse occurs at football, in the playground and online every day. We have sectarianism in Scotland which barely gets a mention.

Are we really saying that making a special case for Black footballers is proportionate and reasonable?

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Mar 19 3.38pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Whenever someone uses a players’ salary to justify this sort of thing, I can’t help but switch off completely. The idea that rich people are fair game for any type of abuse, because they’re rich, is just so silly it’s difficult to comprehend. It's not about what is right and wrong, it is about how you deal with this stuff in the real world. There is no point in sustaining a continued state of outrage. People have to be realistic about the relative importance and seriousness of such occurrences and the practicality of measures to deal with it.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Mar 19 3.38pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Whenever someone uses a players’ salary to justify this sort of thing, I can’t help but switch off completely.

The idea that rich people are fair game for any type of abuse, because they’re rich, is just so silly it’s difficult to comprehend.

It's not about what is right and wrong, it is about how you deal with this stuff in the real world.
There is no point in sustaining a continued state of outrage.
People have to be realistic about the relative importance and seriousness of such occurrences and the practicality of measures to deal with it.

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deleted user 26 Mar 19 3.39pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Sky absolutely loving it today. They can spend all day on Raheem Sterling and Danny Rose getting monkey noises last night. Yes, the media is obsessed with racism and sexism. They prefer that to actually reporting on the sport itself. On the 'racism' itself. It seems that some eastern European countries still find it funny to abuse people for their ethnicity. I always found that very strange. I get that one might want to wind up the opposition and all the time the media and players keep reacting as they do, the idiots will have succeeded. I would suggest, as I have before, that zero reaction would be the best response. These people need to be ignored like you would ignore a badly behaved child at a restaurant. They like the attention so starve them of it. Comparing black players to monkeys would appear to be racist to me. It did the image of Cantona no harm by going crazy when someone was disrespectful to him. Imagine if Sterling did that, he'd be painted as feral. His race would be factored into his reaction in a way that it wasn't there. If it's water off a ducks back to some then that's preferable, but if the very act of acknowledging that something happened and complaining about it is taboo, that's hardly great either. Countries have different cultures and can domestically do as they wish, but if you're part of an international tournament you are expected to acknowledge and adhere to generally accepted international sporting norms. The fans of most countries do not behave this way which is exactly why it becomes an issue when one does.
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deleted user

26 Mar 19 3.39pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Sky absolutely loving it today. They can spend all day on Raheem Sterling and Danny Rose getting monkey noises last night.
Yes, the media is obsessed with racism and sexism. They prefer that to actually reporting on the sport itself.

On the 'racism' itself.

It seems that some eastern European countries still find it funny to abuse people for their ethnicity.
I always found that very strange.
I get that one might want to wind up the opposition and all the time the media and players keep reacting as they do, the idiots will have succeeded.

I would suggest, as I have before, that zero reaction would be the best response. These people need to be ignored like you would ignore a badly behaved child at a restaurant. They like the attention so starve them of it.

Comparing black players to monkeys would appear to be racist to me.

It did the image of Cantona no harm by going crazy when someone was disrespectful to him. Imagine if Sterling did that, he'd be painted as feral. His race would be factored into his reaction in a way that it wasn't there.

If it's water off a ducks back to some then that's preferable, but if the very act of acknowledging that something happened and complaining about it is taboo, that's hardly great either. Countries have different cultures and can domestically do as they wish, but if you're part of an international tournament you are expected to acknowledge and adhere to generally accepted international sporting norms. The fans of most countries do not behave this way which is exactly why it becomes an issue when one does.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Mar 19 3.42pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do you not think that there is a huge disproportion between how we handle racial abuse and other abuse already? Should the severity of abuse not be measured by the effect it has on the victim and not by politics? Abuse occurs at football, in the playground and online every day. We have sectarianism in Scotland which barely gets a mention. Are we really saying that making a special case for Black footballers is proportionate and reasonable? Your point seems to be that because others also get abused, we shouldn’t do anything in case it’s seen as preferential treatment - I find that difficult to understand. I agree Sectarianism should be tackled more strongly, but that does nothing to dissuade my opinion on other forms of racial abuse. As above, I don’t think it should be a special case - those are your words.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Mar 19 3.42pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do you not think that there is a huge disproportion between how we handle racial abuse and other abuse already?

Should the severity of abuse not be measured by the effect it has on the victim and not by politics?

Abuse occurs at football, in the playground and online every day. We have sectarianism in Scotland which barely gets a mention.

Are we really saying that making a special case for Black footballers is proportionate and reasonable?

Your point seems to be that because others also get abused, we shouldn’t do anything in case it’s seen as preferential treatment - I find that difficult to understand.

I agree Sectarianism should be tackled more strongly, but that does nothing to dissuade my opinion on other forms of racial abuse.

As above, I don’t think it should be a special case - those are your words.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Mar 19 3.47pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's not about what is right and wrong, it is about how you deal with this stuff in the real world. There is no point in sustaining a continued state of outrage. People have to be realistic about the relative importance and seriousness of such occurrences and the practicality of measures to deal with it. Yes, and you believe you deal with it by doing nothing; I don’t agree. There is no huge cry of outrage; I’m not sure why people keep hinting at this. I saw a few players, and Southgate, speak on the issue yesterday and they all spoke very openly and sensibly in my opinion. Their message was much more one of ‘its a shame this still goes on’ rather than any major offence or outrage.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Mar 19 3.47pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, and you believe you deal with it by doing nothing; I don’t agree.

There is no huge cry of outrage; I’m not sure why people keep hinting at this. I saw a few players, and Southgate, speak on the issue yesterday and they all spoke very openly and sensibly in my opinion. Their message was much more one of ‘its a shame this still goes on’ rather than any major offence or outrage.

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Mar 19 3.47pm
Originally posted by dollardays Comparing black players to monkeys would appear to be racist to me. It did the image of Cantona no harm by going crazy when someone was disrespectful to him. Imagine if Sterling did that, he'd be painted as feral. His race would be factored into his reaction in a way that it wasn't there. If it's water off a ducks back to some then that's preferable, but if the very act of acknowledging that something happened and complaining about it is taboo, that's hardly great either. Countries have different cultures and can domestically do as they wish, but if you're part of an international tournament you are expected to acknowledge and adhere to generally accepted international sporting norms. The fans of most countries do not behave this way which is exactly why it becomes an issue when one does. I prefer to reserve the word racism for serious stuff like enforced segregation and oppression. For me, monkey noises at a football match fall into the behaviour of people with a mental age of primary school children category. It's always amazing that adults do that stuff but no one died. The response has to be proportionate. I know some will disagree.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Mar 19 3.47pm

Originally posted by dollardays

Comparing black players to monkeys would appear to be racist to me.

I prefer to reserve the word racism for serious stuff like enforced segregation and oppression.

For me, monkey noises at a football match fall into the behaviour of people with a mental age of primary school children category.

It's always amazing that adults do that stuff but no one died. The response has to be proportionate.

I know some will disagree.

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Stirlingsays Online 26 Mar 19 3.48pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow My view is if there are people who think it is ok to make monkey noises at a black player, then some moral outrage is perfectly justifiable - I won’t make any apologies for using words like ‘unacceptable’ when discussing an incident like that. Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone. In a hundred people statistically 15 will have IQs of around 85 and below. It won't only be them of course but I'm illustrating the reality that idiotic behaviour is always going to happen. You are talking from a different cultural perspective from the majority of this nation.....yet still it's a minority of them. It always is. I agree with you it would be better if it didn't happen. Every football match you have wallies shouting insults at opposing players. It's your cultural perspective to be highly offended at racial ones, yet all insults are intended to have the same result.....upset the opposition and gain the satisfaction that you had an impact. Anyway I've waffled on about this enough Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Mar 2019 3.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

26 Mar 19 3.48pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Again, I don’t think this is about control or forcing groups of people to do things they don’t want to do - it’s expecting them not to make monkey noises at someone.

In a hundred people statistically 15 will have IQs of around 85 and below. It won't only be them of course but I'm illustrating the reality that idiotic behaviour is always going to happen.

You are talking from a different cultural perspective from the majority of this nation.....yet still it's a minority of them. It always is. I agree with you it would be better if it didn't happen.

Every football match you have wallies shouting insults at opposing players. It's your cultural perspective to be highly offended at racial ones, yet all insults are intended to have the same result.....upset the opposition and gain the satisfaction that you had an impact.

Anyway I've waffled on about this enough

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Mar 2019 3.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Mar 19 3.51pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Yes, and you believe you deal with it by doing nothing; I don’t agree. There is no huge cry of outrage; I’m not sure why people keep hinting at this. I saw a few players, and Southgate, speak on the issue yesterday and they all spoke very openly and sensibly in my opinion. Their message was much more one of ‘its a shame this still goes on’ rather than any major offence or outrage. It's not that I support doing nothing but more that I don't believe that knee jerk reactions will make a scrap of difference. In Britain, we have had decades of interracial mixing and this has brought a level tolerance, at least on a superficial level. This ain't going to happen anytime soon in a place like Montenegro. If we don't want players exposed to idiots, then we should not play there.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Mar 19 3.51pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Yes, and you believe you deal with it by doing nothing; I don’t agree.

It's not that I support doing nothing but more that I don't believe that knee jerk reactions will make a scrap of difference.
In Britain, we have had decades of interracial mixing and this has brought a level tolerance, at least on a superficial level.
This ain't going to happen anytime soon in a place like Montenegro.
If we don't want players exposed to idiots, then we should not play there.

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deleted user 26 Mar 19 3.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I prefer to reserve the word racism for serious stuff like enforced segregation and oppression. For me, monkey noises at a football match fall into the behaviour of people with a mental age of primary school children category. It's always amazing that adults do that stuff but no one died. The response has to be proportionate. I know some will disagree. They certainly have a very playground mentality to engage in such behaviour, that much I do agree with. Perhaps expecting a 'What would Jesus Do?' style reaction from the target of being compared to a monkey due to your race isn't very realistic either though.
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deleted user

26 Mar 19 3.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I prefer to reserve the word racism for serious stuff like enforced segregation and oppression.

For me, monkey noises at a football match fall into the behaviour of people with a mental age of primary school children category.

It's always amazing that adults do that stuff but no one died. The response has to be proportionate.

I know some will disagree.

They certainly have a very playground mentality to engage in such behaviour, that much I do agree with. Perhaps expecting a 'What would Jesus Do?' style reaction from the target of being compared to a monkey due to your race isn't very realistic either though.

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