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April 19 2024 6.08am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View DANGERCLOSE's Profile DANGERCLOSE Flag london 15 May 19 10.47am Send a Private Message to DANGERCLOSE Add DANGERCLOSE as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Incorrect as ever.

Mrs May ensured that it was a road to where we are because she is a Remainer. The Remainers in Parliament had no intention of allowing a proper Brexit.

Agreed

 

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 15 May 19 1.27pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

So how will brexit be delivered on a second vote?

Good question with an easy answer.

There will be legally binding and detailed, well thought out options which already have inherent approval of parliament.

This was the huge failure of the 2016 vote as there was no approved method to implement the exit. You have seen the result of that for 3 years now.

Before a second vote legislation needs to be be put in place to ensure whatever option is picked there is a smooth mechanism to implement it.

Be that a no deal exit, be that may’s deal, or be that remaining in the EU but with specific measures to carefully examine our standing in the EU as a lot of people clearly are unhappy with that.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 15 May 19 1.37pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I think you will find it might well be, in even greater numbers. One reason being that many who voted to remain seem to be outraged by Parliament's decision not to honour the vote.(sorry no link but I watch News/Daily Politics every day)
As for it being delivered after the mythical 2nd vote, I don't think so because so many MPs have their heads up their ar*** and don't give two figs about the "stupid" public

Kier Starmer recently said that over 150 Labour MPs wouldn’t vote for the potential agreement thrashed out between Jezza and Tezza without a so called “confirmatory vote”. That’s even if an agreement can actually be reached. Customs union is a huge sticking point.

MPs are bottling it, I completely agree with you there. Hundreds of them are not willing to implement brexit as they think millions of people were conned.

Ironically if the leave campaign had a little more integrity and ran a more honest effort, we might have left the EU already.

People like Farage are trying to say everyone understood a vote to leave in 2016 was a vote in support of a no deal exit but I think that is a huge lie.

Millions of people who voted to leave did not think they were voting for a no deal exit, they listened to David Davis and whoever else who said how easy a “deal” would be.

However millions of people probably actually did vote for a no deal exit.

But with enormous consequences and differences between may’s soft brexit, and a hard no deal brexit, there is no way all 17 ish million people voted for the same option.

Hence MPs cannot deliver one or the other of those options.

Hence you need a second vote.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 15 May 19 1.38pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Good question with an easy answer.

There will be legally binding and detailed, well thought out options which already have inherent approval of parliament.

This was the huge failure of the 2016 vote as there was no approved method to implement the exit. You have seen the result of that for 3 years now.

Before a second vote legislation needs to be be put in place to ensure whatever option is picked there is a smooth mechanism to implement it.

Be that a no deal exit, be that may’s deal, or be that remaining in the EU but with specific measures to carefully examine our standing in the EU as a lot of people clearly are unhappy with that.

But Wisbech has been saying it’s the politicians’ responsibility to decide how it happens.
Let’s be honest here. You only want another vote in the vague hope that the result changes.

 

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 15 May 19 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But Wisbech has been saying it’s the politicians’ responsibility to decide how it happens.
Let’s be honest here. You only want another vote in the vague hope that the result changes.

Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept.

Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy.

That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years.

Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea.

That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 15 May 19 1.52pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Kier Starmer recently said that over 150 Labour MPs wouldn’t vote for the potential agreement thrashed out between Jezza and Tezza without a so called “confirmatory vote”. That’s even if an agreement can actually be reached. Customs union is a huge sticking point.

MPs are bottling it, I completely agree with you there. Hundreds of them are not willing to implement brexit as they think millions of people were conned.

Ironically if the leave campaign had a little more integrity and ran a more honest effort, we might have left the EU already.

People like Farage are trying to say everyone understood a vote to leave in 2016 was a vote in support of a no deal exit but I think that is a huge lie.

Millions of people who voted to leave did not think they were voting for a no deal exit, they listened to David Davis and whoever else who said how easy a “deal” would be.

However millions of people probably actually did vote for a no deal exit.

But with enormous consequences and differences between may’s soft brexit, and a hard no deal brexit, there is no way all 17 ish million people voted for the same option.

Hence MPs cannot deliver one or the other of those options.

Hence you need a second vote.

Agreed.

I've posted on this vote split point before. Again, almost every brexiteer seems to think that their version of brexit is the one everyone else voted for. It's insane. There is research that demonstrates what the split was for the leave vote. Unlike the remain one, it was split on several different lines, No deal being one, Canada/Norway being another etc. etc. Just that fact makes a mockery of 'well they haven't delivered what I voted for'. Well even if this process had gone swimmingly there is a high chance that you would not have got what you voted for simply because of the voting split. So you're just winding yourself up really.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (15 May 2019 1.52pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 15 May 19 1.54pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept.

Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy.

That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years.

Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea.

That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other.

It's the only way to a publically approved resolution, yes. There are plenty of scenarios that resolve without a second vote. Probably along the lines of what Liam Fox and Barclay have come out with today – Remain or No Deal. On that basis, and the basis of the vote split, Remain would theoretically have the advantage. If everyone that voted leave had voted for no deal? Then I think remain would lose.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 15 May 19 1.56pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept.

Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy.

That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years.

Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea.

That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other.

No, sorry Maine I’m not buying that. However detailed the instructions and wishes were there would still be problems because of some perceived political gain on one side or the other.
To my mind the entire issue highlights the complete disregard MPs have toward the electorate.


 

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 15 May 19 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

No, sorry Maine I’m not buying that. However detailed the instructions and wishes were there would still be problems because of some perceived political gain on one side or the other.
To my mind the entire issue highlights the complete disregard MPs have toward the electorate.


You eliminate the problems in the planning.

Every option would have inerrant approval of parliament already.

Obviously there is no point doing this if it leads to another 3 years of failed negotiations and votes.

Every single option on that ballot would be pre agreed with all parties, including the EU, so there is no bulls*** once the vote happens.

There are legal mechanisms to ensure whatever is picked has a smooth route to implementation.

That was the failure of 2016 - no route to implementation.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 15 May 19 2.09pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

You eliminate the problems in the planning.

Every option would have inerrant approval of parliament already.

Obviously there is no point doing this if it leads to another 3 years of failed negotiations and votes.

Every single option on that ballot would be pre agreed with all parties, including the EU, so there is no bulls*** once the vote happens.

There are legal mechanisms to ensure whatever is picked has a smooth route to implementation.

That was the failure of 2016 - no route to implementation.

But they haven’t been able to agree anything in three years and now they can agree several options at once? Not likely.

 

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View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 15 May 19 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But they haven’t been able to agree anything in three years and now they can agree several options at once? Not likely.

As Starmer said, there needs to be a confirmatory vote.

MPs are looking to give the final decision to the electorate.

MPs in parliament can craft the second vote exactly as I said because just because you agree to legislate that a vote for a no deal exit will have a route to implementation, doesn’t mean it will definitely happen. You are just agreeing that if it is picked, it will have a route to implementation.

Every leave or remain MP has stated quite openly that a confirmatory vote would lead to one final resolution, if it’s what they want, or not.

They are not “agreeing several options” they are agreeing to honor a second vote, where one of those several options will actually be selected.

Either way, if the second vote cannot be crafted in this way, to have clear routes to implementation, then it has no value at all.

If that is the case then who knows what the final resolution will be.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 15 May 19 2.25pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

As Starmer said, there needs to be a confirmatory vote.

MPs are looking to give the final decision to the electorate.

MPs in parliament can craft the second vote exactly as I said because just because you agree to legislate that a vote for a no deal exit will have a route to implementation, doesn’t mean it will definitely happen. You are just agreeing that if it is picked, it will have a route to implementation.

Every leave or remain MP has stated quite openly that a confirmatory vote would lead to one final resolution, if it’s what they want, or not.

They are not “agreeing several options” they are agreeing to honor a second vote, where one of those several options will actually be selected.

Either way, if the second vote cannot be crafted in this way, to have clear routes to implementation, then it has no value at all.

If that is the case then who knows what the final resolution will be.

But that won’t be the end because Remainers will point to the results of the split Leave vote and claim more people didn’t vote for that option than did. So the whole thing will stall again. If you believe MPs would honour the vote you have more faith in them than me.

 

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