No, I can't say I agree with your analysis on this.....there are certain elements we could agree on but I don't think the whole 'racism' trope is accurate with how it's being portrayed.

I'll repeat the obvious stand out point here. A racist can't accept Candace Owens, whether she agrees with his worldview or not because she is the wrong skin colour.

That point blows the whole argument out of the water and to get pass that you have to start redefining 'racism', which in what is being done here.

I don't cloak my opinions and I'm giving it to you straight. I'm not in Trump's head but in my view Trump is a civic nationalist and for him it's about American nationalism, not skin colour.

If your allegiance is towards other countries he's going to push out this kind of criticism.

In my personal view I find Trump's opinion rather quaint and old fashioned but civic nationalism is very common in the current Republican party amongst the old timers.....it use to be like that with a percent of the Democrats a couple of decades ago as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jul 2019 9.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I'm not redefining anything and have already answered this.

His comments were obviously in part based on their skin colour, whether you acknowledge it or not, so the argument shifts to the idea that he wouldn't have asked Candice Owens to leave the country so it's not 'really' racist. That he wouldn't lash out at someone in lockstep with his worldview is hardly surprising. The fact that he however 'would', as we see here, lash out in 'go home' fashion if she held different views, but wouldn't and hasn't done so to someone of different ancestry tells you all you need to know.

I know the term 'racist' is used all too loosely now, but you can move to the other extreme. You don't have to desire to rid everyone of a different race from the entire country, even if they agree with you politically, to be a racist or to have expressed a racist view.

Edited by dollardays (17 Jul 2019 9.49pm)

I broadly agree.

I don’t neccesarily think Trump is a racist, for some of the reasons you cite above, but equally I think it’s difficult to defend his comments here - call it ill-advised/insensitive or call it racism, ultimately my opinion is that he f***ed up with these comments.

re: Candice. A while ago a documentary about vehement white nationalists was interviewing a man who clearly couldn't stand black people, he had tattoos, the lot... Perplexingly, the guy had a Whitney Houston CD in his music collection. When pushed he said 'I'm sure she'd understand' and thought she had a beautiful voice and way about her. He almost looked sorrowful at the idea that she might not be able to relate to him and his outlook. This is an example of someone with much more full on attitudes than many will encounter, but conveys the complexities that exist in people, racist or otherwise.

Almost everyone bar extremists routinely accept aspects of people and differentiate within groups they may hold less or little affinity with. It's called functioning within society . If someone appears to be 'on your side', both politically and rationally they're not high on any list of people you're likely to attack. However, if when they hold polar opposite views they get a 'go back' home comment where others wouldn't, then that is clearly quite telling.

Along the lines of your thinking, if Trump says this again to another black congresswoman or man for example would that then likely be due to their race? If he did it again after that, would that be? Exactly how long can we use the possibility that in theory he could but hasn't ever said 'go back' home to a white member of congress as an example of why his words aren't race related? These women are not each solely and staunchly defending the country that their ancestors come from anyway. His words were sweeping as was the idea that they all fit some kind of 'go home' criteria.

When someone so prone to unfiltered rants tells non white people who are born in a country to 'go back' home it takes great effort, mental gymnastics, and excusing to adopt such a benign take.

Edited by dollardays (17 Jul 2019 11.17pm)

That’s fair - but it’s also fair to offer criticism when he displays said insensitivity.

I tend to think this is a rather succinct, balanced and yet nuanced way of viewing the man. I think he says what he feels he needs to say to get exactly what he wants.

Edited by dollardays (17 Jul 2019 11.23pm)