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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 Sep 19 10.30am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

That's no way to talk about Jeremy Corbyn

I am no fan of Corbyn but Johnson's problem is that it isn't Corbyn who he is up against, however much he tries to frame it that way. It's Parliament as a whole, including a significant number of people who until recently were senior figures in his own party.

As Corbyn is a very experienced Parliamentarian who understands the conventions and processes as well as anyone he also presents a formidable opponent at this time, whatever you think of his politics.

He is also handling himself with more dignity and gravitas than Johnson, which won't be missed by the average voter.

 

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View DANGERCLOSE's Profile DANGERCLOSE Flag london 07 Sep 19 10.42am Send a Private Message to DANGERCLOSE Add DANGERCLOSE as a friend

Edited by DANGERCLOSE (07 Sep 2019 10.45am)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 Sep 19 10.51am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

In terms of Parliamentary "Control", they have certainly taken control of the Commons business and having rejected the May deal THREE times are now trying to force Johnson to either postpone, or indeed kill off Brexit by seeking yet another extension to Article 50.How many more darned extensions are we to have ?

No-one wants another extension but without an alternative arrangement which Parliament can approve on the table there is really no viable alternative. You don't just give up trying to find a solution because it's difficult and you are bored with the effort. If real problems exist then real solutions need to be found, even if it takes much. much longer than you would have liked. You don't jump off a cliff hoping someone will hand you a parachute half way down.

Parliament have been howling blue moon about the constitutional outrage of prorogation but it is Parliament who have mounted a coup d'etat NOT Boris Johnson.Since 2016, Parliament have used every procedural mechanism to frustrate the result of the referendum, totally disregarding the will of the majority.

Untrue. Using prorogation to attempt to stifle Parliamentary debate is indeed a constitutional outrage. Hiding behind a transparent veil of excuses that no-one believes just makes Johnson look ridiculous. Hardly a wise strategy! Parliament have used no "procedural mechanisms" at all that I am aware of to "frustrate" the result of the referendum. Indeed, despite their own majority view on whether we ought to leave or not they have honoured the commitments they gave and tried to find a satisfactory way to leave the EU. Commitments I personally think ought now to be removed as a consequence of subsequent events. What Parliament as whole has not been able to find is a majority for the deal which was put to them. That's not Parliament's fault. MP's have to make judgements and if their consciences require them to vote against then they must.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 07 Sep 19 10.55am Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

more anti brexit bollox fromm wisbech ! especially the 'they have honoured their commitments'....what aboutthe commitment to honour the result of the referendum, where have they honoured that ??

Edited by the silurian (07 Sep 2019 10.57am)

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 07 Sep 19 11.59am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am no fan of Corbyn but Johnson's problem is that it isn't Corbyn who he is up against, however much he tries to frame it that way. It's Parliament as a whole, including a significant number of people who until recently were senior figures in his own party.

Yet he was only recently voted in as leader of the party by a significant majority of the Conservative Party members in the full knowledge of what he stood for so the renegade Tories are acting against the will of the party's own members as well as their own constituents

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 07 Sep 19 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We live in a Parliamentary democracy in which the "elite" are the government of the day and Parliament expresses the will of the majority.

So you are right, but not in the way you intended.

If a government disregards Parliament's will then our democracy is indeed threatened.

Like Willo said, they’re not. You’ve written pages and pages of how MP’s CAN (we can’t argue with because it is fact) and should (on something that the public directly voted on) oppose something they don’t agree with and now you contradict yourself with this.

Government has tried to disregard parliament’s will by enacting the will of of the majority.

 


COYP

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 07 Sep 19 12.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The idea that a rump of MPs....and that's what it is....can force a sitting PM to act for them with foreign bodies is intolerable. I can't see how that works.

We need an election for the will of the people to be properly represented.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Sep 2019 12.12pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 07 Sep 19 12.24pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

I begin to find myself caring less, until I see the fancy dress pro EU oddballs outside Parliament (the town crier over interviews gets on my t1ts) and how many of the heavily pro EU public will happily sell this country out completely so it has completely lost its identity because of things like:

Lack of pride

Feeling their nation of England or Britain or ancestory isn’t interesting or diverse enough, too plain or embarrassing because of the people Emily Thornberry looks down at. You are what you are. Embrace it or deal with it. Move away if you don’t like it. There’s a solution.

Guilt for things decades and centuries before them.

No concern for anyone outside of their socio economic group. Apart from some principled people, I believe this to be the case.

I’ve said this before but I’d be quite happy to encourage millions of young Mediterranean graduates into Britain like Blair did with cheap east Europeans that have cost people in lower socio economic groups or some industries. Then we’d see how much they love the EU when post graduates are in unskilled or low skilled jobs for many years to come.

There are really only 2 things that concern me with leaving.

1. Medicine that needs to kept in controlled environments and temperatures.

2. JIT Just In Time car industry manufacturing.

I can’t think of anything else that’s are that much of a concern and can’t be solved. Even those 2 can be with some organisation.

 


COYP

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 Sep 19 12.59pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

more anti brexit bollox fromm wisbech ! especially the 'they have honoured their commitments'....what aboutthe commitment to honour the result of the referendum, where have they honoured that ??

Edited by the silurian (07 Sep 2019 10.57am)

In trying to find an exit route that they can all agree upon and which is also acceptable to the rest of the EU they have indeed honoured their commitment. When the whole of the "leave" campaign was predicated upon the idea that a deal would not only be negotiated but would be a piece of cake to arrange you must expect Parliament to seek one.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 Sep 19 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Yet he was only recently voted in as leader of the party by a significant majority of the Conservative Party members in the full knowledge of what he stood for so the renegade Tories are acting against the will of the party's own members as well as their own constituents

For the umpteenth time.

We don't vote in delegates. We vote in representatives. They are not sent there to act on behalf of a small number of party members. They are sent there to use their wisdom to decide for themselves what is the best interests of everyone in their constituency and the country as a whole.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 07 Sep 19 1.05pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I begin to find myself caring less, until I see the fancy dress pro EU oddballs outside Parliament (the town crier over interviews gets on my t1ts) and how many of the heavily pro EU public will happily sell this country out completely so it has completely lost its identity because of things like:

Lack of pride

Feeling their nation of England or Britain or ancestory isn’t interesting or diverse enough, too plain or embarrassing because of the people Emily Thornberry looks down at. You are what you are. Embrace it or deal with it. Move away if you don’t like it. There’s a solution.

Guilt for things decades and centuries before them.

No concern for anyone outside of their socio economic group. Apart from some principled people, I believe this to be the case.

I’ve said this before but I’d be quite happy to encourage millions of young Mediterranean graduates into Britain like Blair did with cheap east Europeans that have cost people in lower socio economic groups or some industries. Then we’d see how much they love the EU when post graduates are in unskilled or low skilled jobs for many years to come.

There are really only 2 things that concern me with leaving.

1. Medicine that needs to kept in controlled environments and temperatures.

2. JIT Just In Time car industry manufacturing.

I can’t think of anything else that’s are that much of a concern and can’t be solved. Even those 2 can be with some organisation.

This should not be an issue as long as the planning has been done, over the years I have prepared contingency plans for all sorts of things.

The doctor who called JRM maybe a great neurosurgeon but he was scaremongering. He claims that he wrote the mitigation for Yellowhammer and than asked JRM what mortality rate was acceptable. JRM rightly said if he had written the document he hadn't done a very good job and that the document had since been rewritten.

I believe the main risk for medication is one that relates to transportation so why on earth would you ask a neurosurgeon? If I need brain surgery I don't ask a truck driver.

I think the good doctor was asked to make a contribution but his was one of many. If he was asked to write the report then the person who asked him is an idiot.

Off the top of my head my approach would be this:

1. Identify all drugs that the NHS import and have experts like the good doctor quantify the risk if we run out. A High risk would patients die because there is no alternative drug. Low risk would be something like acne cream.

2. Talk to the experts such as UK and French customs, transportation experts etc. about the possible risks that they see and base your findings on that. My guess is the real fear is that a truckload of cancer drugs is stuck in a 50 mile traffic jam at Calais.

Note: The head of the Calais port has already said he sees no issues and he is fully prepared but you still have to plan.

3. Your plan should be in 3 parts:
- Day 1 to day 14*
- Day 14 to day 28
- Day 28 to 6 months.

Day 1 is the real high risk my solution would be to tell UK border not to change anything for 6 months, no extra checks etc. The ex head of UK border has already proposed this. Any additional checks / documentation should be introduced gradually.

To be on the safe side I would order the high risk drugs to be transported to the UK via an alternative method for the first 2 weeks. Possible alternate routes could be fly them into a military airbase, or ship them via a port in Germany or Holland to a naval port in the UK. In short any route that does not involve the truck driver getting caught in a traffic jam.

Once we Brexit you monitor the first 2 weeks if there are no issues in the usual route then you revert to that after 2 weeks. Any problems you continue with your contingency until things have settled down.

This is real basic contingency planning maybe that the May government didn't do it properly but if someone mucks this up they should sacked it's not difficult.

Edited by Badger11 (07 Sep 2019 1.08pm)

 


One more point

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 07 Sep 19 1.06pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Like Willo said, they’re not. You’ve written pages and pages of how MP’s CAN (we can’t argue with because it is fact) and should (on something that the public directly voted on) oppose something they don’t agree with and now you contradict yourself with this.

Government has tried to disregard parliament’s will by enacting the will of of the majority.

The will of the people is expressed through their elected representatives. That's the way it works.

It's not simply the will of the people who vote, let alone the will of the people who vote in any particular way. It's the perceived will of ALL of the people as determined by the MPs.

 

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