How or why that fire started in the flat is not the issue. Fires happen. Faulty wiring happens. Just a fact of life. The only issue is why that building was clad in that material. That is why all those poor people died.

And what is being pushed to one side. Brushed under the carpet. All this froth around the fire-brigade and the prosecutions of the people trying to scrounge in the aftermath is pure BS. Classic political distraction techniques and I suspect one that our entire political class is embracing.

Playing up to ALL of our collective worse sensibilities. We need to acknowledge that. Our venal, self-aggrandizing political elite at its very worst.

No cladding, no deaths. It is as simple as that. The fire-brigade response was perfectly in line with the known 'facts' prior to the incident getting underway. Certainly worthy of retrospection but still a matter of internal LFB consideration. Not a public enquiry and certainly not before the main question with regards to how that cladding came to be in place to start with.

Cladding. Cladding. Cladding. That is it. That is why that tower block was turned into a torch. Why was it up there? Who passed it as being safe? What were the process? The policy?

I am firmly of the Right. Make no bones about that. But my political antennae are twitching away like anything because this stinks and goes well beyond the usual slings and arrows of the 'game'. With politicians from all sides of the divide playing their part in ensuring that the cladding question is not being given the absolute prominence it deserves. That is the rot in all of this.

Forget everything else. All merely window dressing. The key lays in the process as to why that cladding went up on that building.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Doreen Lawrence brought race into it along with many other talking heads from various "communities"......and the media ran with it.

The LFB made mistakes.
Should everyone apart from the emergency services be implicated.
The fact they have been pulled up will save many lives going forwards.
It takes disasters to get change.
100 years ago at ypres it took one day and 20k dead for the army to realise a mistake and make changes.
History shows this.
I dont think its personal.

No they didnt clad the building or set it on fire.
The truth is they made mistakes on the night.
Whether through a building being not properly fire rated or lack of training in certain situations I dont know.
It's as if like climate change they and it are beyond criticism.
Also not once have I thought that woman was correct.
I still dont believe the report about the police after Lawrence was killed.
That's a reason we are where we are now with racism and accusations every two minutes.

Easy to say they made mistakes on the night.
They followed the set protocols and risked their lives to save people.
Cop out to pick apart those protocols from a set of circumstances not faced before (the cladding) and try and blame them.
999 services are not perfect, but how many people do their job whilst being threatened verbally or physically?
In my career i had a knife held at me, a shotgun pointed at me and lost count of the physical threats let alone the verbal.
All while trying to help someone.
Easy targets.

Yep all spot on.

Look, uncomfortable truth is that when you are in a situation like that you need to use your common sense.

What Mogg said was accurate but obviously the disingenuous are suggesting that this is him criticising victims when it isn't.

It's recognising that when the sh1t hits the fan that it's you....the sh1t and the fan and you need to make the decisions....It's not fair, it's horrible but it's reality. Often people don't want to hear it.

Never forget that for many different reasons 'experts' are often wrong.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Nov 2019 9.23pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)