Dr Eugene Gu, a politically active physician with a large social media following, tweeted bluntly that “Injecting disinfectant into your body will kill you.

“While it feels completely unnecessary to even say this, people drank fish tank cleaner containing chloroquine because of what they heard from rumors about the substance. We must fight deadly misinformation no matter how stupid.”

Dr Gu’s reference to fish tank cleaner concerns an Arizona man who died after he and his wife drank chloroquine, which they mistook for hydroxychloroquine – a drug aggressively pushed as a coronavirus treatment by Mr Trump and Fox News. Both sources have now pivoted away from the drug since the release of a study that showed no positive effect.''

Hmm, President Trump said quite a lot about Hydroxychloroquine as I remember, got very excited. Just like a small boy really

I think Mapletree was probably referring to the batteries, which would no doubt bring the swallower much unpleasantness.

Trump did himself no favours by "winging it". Disinfectants make no distinction between good and bad organisms. They kill a very high percentage of everything.

That is the point of trying to develop a vaccine. It is more discriminating in what it kills.

On the forthcoming US election, the Democrats seem to be not very quick off the mark. If the CV virus is on a steep decline by the time voting is near (and I'm only going by the UK media), it would seem Trump would be the stand-out winner again.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

Turns out jokes is on everyone else, actually Trump just said a really painfully idiotic thing to see what would happen and how the press would respond by pointing out the painfully idiotic thing... as being painfully idiotic.

The man is playing 4D chess...

[Tweet Link]

Would almost be funny if there weren’t thousands of people dying in his country and he wasn’t almost certainly going to win re-election in November.

Anyone who actually saw Trump make those remarks, and the reaction of those around him, knows for certain that there was no sarcasm involved at all. All he is doing today is giving his mega dumb base a lifeline to cling to, something everyone knows isn't true but that they will, because he says it's true.

Let's hope that in the intervening 24 hours no-one has actually swallowed any bleach or IPA or laid under a sun lamp with their mouth open.

Whether Trump gets a second term is really up in the air. The bookies have him and Biden almost at evens right now, with Biden a marginal favourite. I think three things will make the difference. 1) If the US economy nosedives, as seems likely whenever the lockdown is relaxed, then Trump will suffer. 2) If the lockdown is released too early and a second wave comes early, Trump will be blamed and the economy suffer even more. 3) If Biden fails to stand up to pressure and the attacks from the right he could be weakened significantly. (My own hope is if the DNC see that happening then he will be "retired" on health grounds and a charismatic replacement nominated.)

If I was a betting man then I would lump a lot on Trump losing. I think there is too much piling up against him.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

There are opinions along every scale to do with this virus. I think we’ll be following the lead of Germany or Spain and Italy depending on how they weigh up which and when. What we’ll do is make it look like it’s data driven. I don’t blame government for doing this because if we keep it based on medical findings then we won’t be out of lockdown for a long time. I don’t believe Grant Schapps when he said lockdown decisions will be purely medical decisions.

Herd immunity relies on natural immunity to last during the time it takes for the herd immunity they reach that level. With this virus there’s no evidence of that natural immunity.

On Trump. Before all this I’d be content. He’s having a bad war and is embarrassing himself. I suppose you expect this when morons face more dynamics they’re used to. The concerning thing is the influence he has on twitter before thinking and doesn’t have anything to go by or copy his policies from and is showing no consistency from day one.

COYP

What can I say I think our approach has been wrong. I've been pretty consistent about my contention that the Swedish model was the correct one.

What I can say is that it's a difficult decision for anyone. I also recognise that taking the 'herd immunity' pathway would have come under huge and constant criticism. A political party that cares about how it is portrayed wasn't seriously going to stick with herd immunity. The Tories are obsessed with keeping their newly obtained northern labour voters and and it all factors in and so are hyper sensitive to the lame 'uncaring' charge.

The way British culture works, a desperate feminized 'save lives' mantra is basically the default message. The reasoning that life is risk management and always has been is thrown out the window in place of a modern individualistic form of hysteria....a pandemic of panic if you will....something akin to the salem witch trial reactions where parties all convince each other that their perceptions are accurate.

Yet all these officialdom reactions....from my point of view, appear to be based upon covering their own arses. Initially they were going with herd immunity....until they get a model suggesting a huge death toll, a model that presented a very unlikely outcome. Then, just as with extinction rebellion...this very unlikely worst case scenario is taken as realistic with nothing more than the inputs into a statistical model as evidence.

So the result is we have spent billions and wrecked economies on what amounts to guesswork.

So the way society is now, this 'save lives', 'save the NHS' message can be maintained for a long time with very little discussion or pushback in the mainstream media. Perhaps by the time a more rational and balanced analysis is published the public will have moved on so much that it'll be ignored.....Indeed, it won't be in the media's interest to focus on a message that directly attacks its behaviour during this period.....I've already noted the media self consciously defending itself under the guise that no other position was realistic....well yeah...but that's partly because of the media itself and the societal culture it endorses.

Shouldn't that be the other way around?

Herd immunity (a term I dislike because 'immunity' doesn't exist) is the default way nature deals with viruses. I keep hearing people cast doubts however they don't cite anything, it's all anecdotal.

If you're on your last legs and your immune system is weakened then of course your ability to fight off a virus is reduced even with anti bodies depending upon just how much infection load is around you....from how I understand it....it's like a really good defence not an infallible one.....swarm it enough for long enough and you're going to get through eventually.

If indeed the Kung flu ignores the anti bodies from a previous infection or partially ignores them....I'd wager that the claims for it being a 'natural virus' would be weakened. I wager what is far more likely in cases like this is reinfection from a different strain in a weakened system....not that common.

My current position....subject to evidence otherwise....is that this virus is natural in nature, though the accidental release theory is plausible.

If this was a designed virus deliberately released to wreck havoc why would its kill ratio be so low and why would it be released in China itself.....Yeah, we can state that the CCP are incredibly heartless even to their own people but there's simply no need to self harm first.

That said, the reality that designed viruses are being worked on is just a no brainer....of course they are.

While the anti Trump press and commentators have lied about what Trump said the truth is that it was a stupid message to put out there.

What on earth was he doing? To me, it's classic Trump and can be put down to the surface way he absorbs information. However, it essentially comes down to which administration do you trust running America.

As a person, I'm quite fatalistic in nature as it doesn't matter what we think. However, if I were American and had a vote I'd stick with the republicans...at least until the Democrats went back to some kind of sanity.

Still, on the other hand I realise that it doesn't really matter as America is on its path either way.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Apr 2020 5.23am)

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