I'm pro English and western. What you're arguing for here is impartiality and objectivity in how we view the past. Even if this were possible....and I don't really think it is. It's unreachable in the same way 'objective truth' is unreachable....there's a level, but the reality is that perspective will always win out as that is how humans are made.

In this age few aspire to serious objectivity anyway. I will argue, considering the rifts, that it's worth is arguable now.

I wouldn't disagree with you that there are horrible aspects of the past that 'we' are associated with. However, as we recognise no nation escapes this and revisionism tends to the cultural zeitgeist of the day.

What is apparent in the current national discourse is that only Europeans and in this case British are being asked for this brutal self criticism, which forgets the huge strides we advanced for humanity. As a nation we should feel good about ourselves and our history should reflect that. An attempted objective re-reading of history makes that inpossible. Whereas before the left's perspective dominated education this was possible.

Essentially, what I'm saying here is that I prefer my lies to your lies....We could change the word 'lies' to perspective, but as I claim at the beginning all intangibles are subject to interpretation.

I'm saying that the 'non preference' that you state tends towards people who aren't under any threat.

I put forward that while we are all individuals we are also our genes and we have to pick a perspective and side with what is in common to us...otherwise we are rootless and 'citizens of nowhere'.....I know you categorize yourself with all humanity, which is obviously a correct perspective, however I recognise that humanity, like all species, has sub divisions, as evolution inevitably makes of all its creations.

You think tribalism is malleable, I don't....not until long into the future where technology and eugenics give us that future. I believe rushing that process produces far larger piles of bones than not.

Until that far away day the best that can be hoped for is peace between 'tribes'. I don't believe throwing all of them together, in an unfiltered form, best works for that. You can't have two big fish with teeth in the pond...the evidence for this is playing out now. Look at what the left and all the institutions are doing to whites, they are being forced to undergo a cultural gelding and debasement. If this continues it will only worsen....feck taking a knee for anyone and I say that to all humanity.

I believe these 'tribes' of whatever racial/intellectual mixture need to represent themselves and make peaceful terms between each other. As I say this doesn't have to be racial it need only be pro western....but it does involve picking sides.

Of course, there will be that rootless class who pretend they can be Ireland or the Swiss in WW2. The 'oh I'm so above it all' class who live in nice safe areas and have lost or loosened that connection to ancestral history. In reality it all depends upon how it all wraps up...as to how you're regarded. Well, perhaps not them, but their descendants anyway (though this class of individual tends to less children) as this will carry on over generations.

What you are seeing now are the opening notes of a very long tune.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Jun 2020 12.54pm)

Hard to know where to begin with this.

As I understand your post black people are victims, racism stopped in the 60's and George Floyd deserved to die because he was a 'criminal' (used a fake 20 dollar bill so that obviously necessitates death by asphyxiation over the course of 8 minutes).

I'd hazard a guess opinions like yours are the reason people the world over are protesting because you lack any awareness of their shared experience.

Yeah broadly agree. Certainly can't achieve objectivity across society, it's more or less impossible. I'd also say that yes different factions need to learn to co-exist, but humans have been trying to do that for millennia, we just don't work that way. However that's not to say we shouldn't aim for that ideal. And finally, yes, the only solution to this is homogeny fuelled by technology, corporate dominance, eugenics... It's the end game because it's the only way to prevent conflict. Make everyone the same. The only statues around by then will be corporate ones.

Hard to know where to begin with this.

As I understand your post black people are victims, racism stopped in the 60's and George Floyd deserved to die because he was a 'criminal' (used a fake 20 dollar bill so that obviously necessitates death by asphyxiation over the course of 8 minutes).

I'd hazard a guess opinions like yours are the reason people the world over are protesting because you lack any awareness of their shared experience.

I have visited the US every year since 2003 and have some good friends there. Believe me Obama wasn’t as popular as you would like to believe. Many people couldn’t wait to see the back of him. Possibly was only elected because of his colour, who knows? The Trump obsession is Alice and kicking I see

Edited by Spiderman (13 Jun 2020 10.27am)

It's interesting though that the countries with multi cultural populations tend to be the most racist. Apparently.

What does that tell you?