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BlueJay UK 21 Jan 21 3.57pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye Voted for Trump but his stolen election antics and lying about it since then have made me glad that Biden has won. I will disagree with almost everything Biden does, and I will find the individuals who make up his administration to be insufferable knobs. Biden has nay impossible task to walk the knife edge between a frenzied democratic party that is out for blood and moderates who just want him to manage the COVID response and recovery. This is time for the GOP to take its lumps, do some gatekeeping about who will hold power in the party and allow the left to overstep as they inevitably will and let the winds of public opinion start blowing against them. Kitchen table issues win elections, and my bet is the new BLM, critical race theory orthodoxy will push suburban voters back to the GOP if the GOP can't shed some of the QANON types. Sensible, measured opinion. Shocking to read such balanced thoughts on here Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.02pm)
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BlueJay

UK 21 Jan 21 3.57pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

Voted for Trump but his stolen election antics and lying about it since then have made me glad that Biden has won. I will disagree with almost everything Biden does, and I will find the individuals who make up his administration to be insufferable knobs. Biden has nay impossible task to walk the knife edge between a frenzied democratic party that is out for blood and moderates who just want him to manage the COVID response and recovery.

This is time for the GOP to take its lumps, do some gatekeeping about who will hold power in the party and allow the left to overstep as they inevitably will and let the winds of public opinion start blowing against them.

Kitchen table issues win elections, and my bet is the new BLM, critical race theory orthodoxy will push suburban voters back to the GOP if the GOP can't shed some of the QANON types.

Sensible, measured opinion. Shocking to read such balanced thoughts on here

Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.02pm)

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BlueJay UK 21 Jan 21 4.03pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The argument that minorities will eventually vote for the US Republican party is an idea that's been sold for fifty years and it was a lie back then and it's a lie now. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 3.16pm) Demographics will guide their approach. Previously they had little reason to appeal to non white voters. In fact a suspicion of 'the other' racially, was core to their approach. It was this election too to some extent, but this basically heralded the last time such an approach will work. I don't think you even disagree with that, but where you think this heralds the end for them, I think they'll just adjust their messaging (and as they do so non whites will be less prone to view the party as non for them). They really have little other choice. Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.04pm)
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BlueJay

UK 21 Jan 21 4.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The argument that minorities will eventually vote for the US Republican party is an idea that's been sold for fifty years and it was a lie back then and it's a lie now.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 3.16pm)

Demographics will guide their approach. Previously they had little reason to appeal to non white voters. In fact a suspicion of 'the other' racially, was core to their approach. It was this election too to some extent, but this basically heralded the last time such an approach will work. I don't think you even disagree with that, but where you think this heralds the end for them, I think they'll just adjust their messaging (and as they do so non whites will be less prone to view the party as non for them). They really have little other choice.

Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.04pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Jan 21 4.04pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I have no idea if thats all true so can"t comment, but I did see him getting more flak than anyone on here, like wisbech now, although wis"s has slowed down recently, but Nik did get bullied, maybe the reason he lost it at the end, and kermit resigned in sympathy! I see the right trying to silence good left side players, by ganging up, i don"t understand why as it would be a very sad site if all we could do is praise Boris, farage and the don,a bit like palace playing palace ladies every saturday(no score draws are very boring)! Is your record broken? Maybe you can't read too well. People who sulked and left this site for the BBS didn't do the same when Nick then got banned from there as well. What does that tell you?
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Jan 21 4.04pm

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Originally posted by croydon proud
I have no idea if thats all true so can"t comment, but I did see him getting more flak than anyone on here, like wisbech now, although wis"s has slowed down recently, but Nik did get bullied, maybe the reason he lost it at the end, and kermit resigned in sympathy! I see the right trying to silence good left side players, by ganging up, i don"t understand why as it would be a very sad site if all we could do is praise Boris, farage and the don,a bit like palace playing palace ladies every saturday(no score draws are very boring)!

Is your record broken? Maybe you can't read too well.

People who sulked and left this site for the BBS didn't do the same when Nick then got banned from there as well.

What does that tell you?

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 21 Jan 21 4.09pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area. Stirling - I do tend to agree with you. However, the GOP has to find a way to be at least competitive in other demographic groups outside of whites. Trump brought in new voters in the south of Texas and Miami-date county with working class Latinos. This shift has given me some optimism that working class minorities won't vote monolithically. The democrats and left have been w***ing themselves to the whole "demographics is destiny" for the last 30 years but the truth is the only people who use newspeak terms like "LATIN X" are progressive whites. These terms are not used in Latino communities and looked at with much comedy and scorn. Well off, well-to-do, overly credentialed, upper class white progressives and their associated god complex is a bigger problem for the GOP than working class minorities whose small businesses simply stand to benefit more from GOP policies than Democrat ones. Retirement place then shek?
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 21 Jan 21 4.09pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area.

Stirling - I do tend to agree with you. However, the GOP has to find a way to be at least competitive in other demographic groups outside of whites. Trump brought in new voters in the south of Texas and Miami-date county with working class Latinos. This shift has given me some optimism that working class minorities won't vote monolithically. The democrats and left have been w***ing themselves to the whole "demographics is destiny" for the last 30 years but the truth is the only people who use newspeak terms like "LATIN X" are progressive whites. These terms are not used in Latino communities and looked at with much comedy and scorn.

Well off, well-to-do, overly credentialed, upper class white progressives and their associated god complex is a bigger problem for the GOP than working class minorities whose small businesses simply stand to benefit more from GOP policies than Democrat ones.

Retirement place then shek?

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steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jan 21 4.09pm
I think the Republicans must ditch Trump and re-group with someone sensible like Milt Romney. I don't think the USA will want a repeat dose of Trump and he should be impeached to clear the way. If they cling to him it will be a democrat future, prosecutors must be itching to get at him.
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steeleye20

Croydon 21 Jan 21 4.09pm

I think the Republicans must ditch Trump and re-group with someone sensible like Milt Romney.

I don't think the USA will want a repeat dose of Trump and he should be impeached to clear the way.

If they cling to him it will be a democrat future, prosecutors must be itching to get at him.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jan 21 4.10pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area. Stirling - I do tend to agree with you. However, the GOP has to find a way to be at least competitive in other demographic groups outside of whites. Trump brought in new voters in the south of Texas and Miami-date county with working class Latinos. This shift has given me some optimism that working class minorities won't vote monolithically. The democrats and left have been w***ing themselves to the whole "demographics is destiny" for the last 30 years but the truth is the only people who use newspeak terms like "LATIN X" are progressive whites. These terms are not used in Latino communities and looked at with much comedy and scorn. Well off, well-to-do, overly credentialed, upper class white progressives and their associated god complex is a bigger problem for the GOP than working class minorities whose small businesses simply stand to benefit more from GOP policies than Democrat ones. I agree with a lot of what you say, it's obvious we stand facing the same political direction. I'll say this on the shifting demographics issue for the right. It's true that there is a percentage of latinos that are naturally socially conservative, especially Cubans. Also we see with the wonderful Candace Owens that there is an exciting entrupurial class of blacks who are a credit to any community.....but the numbers man....it's never been anything like enough: not for national government anyway. You're competing against the huge welfare catch-all and the reality that most minorities will always vote against what they think is the majority interest.....even when it's actually in their best self interest. I say welcome these people to the republicans, however we shouldn't be under no illusions that they will always be minorities amongst their own communities. Trying to change conservatism will end with what we have here in the UK....basically a left wing party that only cares about house prices....that's just a small part of conservatism. I think the republicans should be looking to state governance and non compliance with Biden's government....similar to what the Democrats did with Trump but just without burning down their own cities. For example he'll try to flood red states with immigrants and the states should just refuse them. It doesn't have to be a full separation of the US, but I think the red states need to be thinking far more as a group and running their states independently from the Democrats....because unless they do their kids will be asking them what their pronouns are before you know it. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 4.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jan 21 4.10pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area.

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's obvious we stand facing the same political direction.

I'll say this on the shifting demographics issue for the right.

It's true that there is a percentage of latinos that are naturally socially conservative, especially Cubans. Also we see with the wonderful Candace Owens that there is an exciting entrupurial class of blacks who are a credit to any community.....but the numbers man....it's never been anything like enough: not for national government anyway.

You're competing against the huge welfare catch-all and the reality that most minorities will always vote against what they think is the majority interest.....even when it's actually in their best self interest.

I say welcome these people to the republicans, however we shouldn't be under no illusions that they will always be minorities amongst their own communities. Trying to change conservatism will end with what we have here in the UK....basically a left wing party that only cares about house prices....that's just a small part of conservatism.

I think the republicans should be looking to state governance and non compliance with Biden's government....similar to what the Democrats did with Trump but just without burning down their own cities.

For example he'll try to flood red states with immigrants and the states should just refuse them.

It doesn't have to be a full separation of the US, but I think the red states need to be thinking far more as a group and running their states independently from the Democrats....because unless they do their kids will be asking them what their pronouns are before you know it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 4.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 21 Jan 21 4.12pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Is your record broken? Maybe you can't read too well. People who sulked and left this site for the BBS didn't do the same when Nick then got banned from there as well. What does that tell you? Kermit?
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 21 Jan 21 4.12pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Is your record broken? Maybe you can't read too well.

People who sulked and left this site for the BBS didn't do the same when Nick then got banned from there as well.

What does that tell you?

Kermit?

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jan 21 4.14pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye Voted for Trump but his stolen election antics and lying about it since then have made me glad that Biden has won. I will disagree with almost everything Biden does, and I will find the individuals who make up his administration to be insufferable knobs. Biden has nay impossible task to walk the knife edge between a frenzied democratic party that is out for blood and moderates who just want him to manage the COVID response and recovery. This is time for the GOP to take its lumps, do some gatekeeping about who will hold power in the party and allow the left to overstep as they inevitably will and let the winds of public opinion start blowing against them. Kitchen table issues win elections, and my bet is the new BLM, critical race theory orthodoxy will push suburban voters back to the GOP if the GOP can't shed some of the QANON types. I have been to America many times on business and pleasure one personal observation I would make about the "average" American is how polite they are. This may not come across when there are demos etc or you are watching trailer trash. It occurs to me that many of them would be offended by Trumps antics even if they agreed with his policies which might partially explain why he lost. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Jan 21 4.14pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

Kitchen table issues win elections, and my bet is the new BLM, critical race theory orthodoxy will push suburban voters back to the GOP if the GOP can't shed some of the QANON types.

I have been to America many times on business and pleasure one personal observation I would make about the "average" American is how polite they are. This may not come across when there are demos etc or you are watching trailer trash.

It occurs to me that many of them would be offended by Trumps antics even if they agreed with his policies which might partially explain why he lost.

One more point

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BlueJay UK 21 Jan 21 4.15pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area. Stirling - I do tend to agree with you. However, the GOP has to find a way to be at least competitive in other demographic groups outside of whites. Trump brought in new voters in the south of Texas and Miami-date county with working class Latinos. This shift has given me some optimism that working class minorities won't vote monolithically. The democrats and left have been w***ing themselves to the whole "demographics is destiny" for the last 30 years but the truth is the only people who use newspeak terms like "LATIN X" are progressive whites. These terms are not used in Latino communities and looked at with much comedy and scorn. Well off, well-to-do, overly credentialed, upper class white progressives and their associated god complex is a bigger problem for the GOP than working class minorities whose small businesses simply stand to benefit more from GOP policies than Democrat ones. Yes, beyond prejudice and sweeping assumptions there is absolutely no reason why the GOP can't have a somewhat broader appeal while holding onto the majority of their values. This is turn will make the party more attractive to those who otherwise felt it wasn't for them. It's pointless for the party to unnecessarily limit their reach to their own political detriment and so they will adapt just as any other political party would. It's a two party system and so adjusting messaging isn't going to be beyond them even if there is an adjust period of a few years. Political parties often get voted out rather than in, so there are multiple factors at play which almost guarantee that Trump won't be the GOPs 'last dance'.
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BlueJay

UK 21 Jan 21 4.15pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

I love West Virginia, cheap property, beautiful scenery and no people, unfortunately I live in northern Virginia closer to the DC area.

Yes, beyond prejudice and sweeping assumptions there is absolutely no reason why the GOP can't have a somewhat broader appeal while holding onto the majority of their values. This is turn will make the party more attractive to those who otherwise felt it wasn't for them. It's pointless for the party to unnecessarily limit their reach to their own political detriment and so they will adapt just as any other political party would. It's a two party system and so adjusting messaging isn't going to be beyond them even if there is an adjust period of a few years. Political parties often get voted out rather than in, so there are multiple factors at play which almost guarantee that Trump won't be the GOPs 'last dance'.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jan 21 4.16pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Demographics will guide their approach. Previously they had little reason to appeal to non white voters. In fact a suspicion of 'the other' racially, was core to their approach. It was this election too to some extent, but this basically heralded the last time such an approach will work. I don't think you even disagree with that, but where you think this heralds the end for them, I think they'll just adjust their messaging (and as they do so non whites will be less prone to view the party as non for them). They really have little other choice. Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.04pm) No, that leads to the death of social conservatism as it has done so here. No doubt you'd be fine with that, however I'm on the other side of the 'approach' fence. Trump offered huge financial gains to non whites, he bent over backwards but still did less well than Bush jnr did...I didn't agree with any of it at all actually. The red states need to stop cooperation with Biden, similar to how blue state behaved. A peaceful moving away from national governance. You keep selling the same disproven idea that minorities will come to the republicans in numbers if they do X or Y. The republicans have been trying that for decades now and the statistics show it for the mistake it always was....it's a false rabbit hole to travel down. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 4.33pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jan 21 4.16pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.04pm)

No, that leads to the death of social conservatism as it has done so here.

No doubt you'd be fine with that, however I'm on the other side of the 'approach' fence.

Trump offered huge financial gains to non whites, he bent over backwards but still did less well than Bush jnr did...I didn't agree with any of it at all actually.

The red states need to stop cooperation with Biden, similar to how blue state behaved. A peaceful moving away from national governance.

You keep selling the same disproven idea that minorities will come to the republicans in numbers if they do X or Y.

The republicans have been trying that for decades now and the statistics show it for the mistake it always was....it's a false rabbit hole to travel down.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jan 2021 4.33pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Spiderman Horsham 21 Jan 21 4.35pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Sensible, measured opinion. Shocking to read such balanced thoughts on here Edited by BlueJay (21 Jan 2021 4.02pm) And a Trump voter! If you believe everything some write on here, this poster does not exist, who�d have thought it
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Spiderman

Horsham 21 Jan 21 4.35pm