Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In | RSS Feed
Mstrobez 19 Feb 21 1.42pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by rikz
So you're literally excusing everything else down to the fact we have one centre back in our squad who is 35, what a load of rubbish. Let's look at Brighton away on Monday, every other team in this league would identify that fixture as one they could pick up 3 away points from albeit win lose or draw. We will look at it as a fixture we can get a decent away point from and will set up to do exactly that from the first minute and hope for the best. If we go a goal down then game over as Hodgson has no plan b and his subs are usually too late and completely baffling. Excusing "everything else"? What is this "everything else" you are talking about? He delivered our highest ever points tally in the Premier League. I'm not blaming Gary Cahill for the fact we're not challenging for Europe. For the most part, he's actually been very good. I'm saying that having your first choice centre back as a 35 year old who can barely run anymore, in the top flight of English football, is a pretty good indicator of the level of squad you have. Relatively speaking, ours is not very good. That's the point. You, like the vast majority of the Roy out mob, are talking out of your arse at this point mate. It's become a cult. Criticise the bloke by all means but calling for his head is ridiculous and will achieve nothing.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 Feb 21 1.45pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mstrobez
Forget opinions. This isn't based on opinions. Roy Hodgson is one of the most successful managers in the clubs history. Fact. For the majority of his time at the club we have received more in transfer funds than we've dished out. Fact. He is the only manager we have had since we've been in the Premier League who hasn't had us involved in a relegation scrap. Fact. We are closer to the top half (right now, as large chunks of fans descend into meltdown) than we are to the relegation spots. Fact. Nobody is suggesting Roy Hodgson is beyond criticism, not least me. He can be frustrating as anything and the last couple of performances were very poor. But to suggest there is a manger out there who would take the current squad further than Roy is bordering on deluded. It's like we've got so used to literally not signing anyone that we signed Eze in the summer and everyone started acting like we rebuilt the squad and should be pushing for Europe. We are nowhere near that standard yet. And if we want to reach it, maintaining our status in the Premier League for now is paramount. If we are to push on, Roy's role in (comfortably) keeping us afloat will be vital. Even if a bunch of spoilt brats in the HF and their disciples aren't grateful for it. Edited by Mstrobez (19 Feb 2021 1.18pm) You can roll out facts all day for various sides of an argument, such as our record under Roy without Wilf, how many times we even score without Wilf under Roy Hodgson, how many goals we've conceded in games this season, how miserable some of our performance have been, how we still are at threat of relegation etc etc. I'm not saying your points or opinion is wrong but your insistence that everyone else is wrong and pointing to facts, of which football is awash with and can be used for near enough any argument, is not convincing. To suggest that of all the managers in world football, we are so extremely lucky as to have the one, the only one in the entire realms of possibility, who could keep us in the Premier League is 'bordering on delusional'. If you dislike the HF fair enough, I've always had mixed feelings but no real strong emotions towards them, but it seems like you're feeding off that to go on a tirade which has included deriding our own fans.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 19 Feb 21 1.50pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mstrobez
Excusing "everything else"? What is this "everything else" you are talking about? He delivered our highest ever points tally in the Premier League. I'm not blaming Gary Cahill for the fact we're not challenging for Europe. For the most part, he's actually been very good. I'm saying that having your first choice centre back as a 35 year old who can barely run anymore, in the top flight of English football, is a pretty good indicator of the level of squad you have. Relatively speaking, ours is not very good. That's the point. You, like the vast majority of the Roy out mob, are talking out of your arse at this point mate. It's become a cult. Criticise the bloke by all means but calling for his head is ridiculous and will achieve nothing. My view,for what is is worth,and I am cerebrally challenged, is that the squad has its limitations and that another manager could not suddenly get them to perform with much greater aplomb. I appreciate that this viewpoint does not resonate with many on HOL but the smorgasbord of opinions is all part of it's rich tapestry.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mstrobez 19 Feb 21 2.00pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Nicholas91
You can roll out facts all day for various sides of an argument, such as our record under Roy without Wilf, how many times we even score without Wilf under Roy Hodgson, how many goals we've conceded in games this season, how miserable some of our performance have been, how we still are at threat of relegation etc etc. I'm not saying your points or opinion is wrong but your insistence that everyone else is wrong and pointing to facts, of which football is awash with and can be used for near enough any argument, is not convincing. To suggest that of all the managers in world football, we are so extremely lucky as to have the one, the only one in the entire realms of possibility, who could keep us in the Premier League is 'bordering on delusional'. If you dislike the HF fair enough, I've always had mixed feelings but no real strong emotions towards them, but it seems like you're feeding off that to go on a tirade which has included deriding our own fans. People are entitled to dislike Roy and want him out. And they are by far the most vocal section of fans at the moment. I am merely pointing out that they are not representative of the entire fanbase. There are plenty of us out there who are grateful for the job he's done & the manner in which he's gone about his business. Where I suggest that people are categorically wrong is where they make out that the club hasn't progressed under his leadership. That's just factually incorrect. We have gone from a club who routinely survived by the skin of our teeth - spending millions in the process - to a club that is never really in any danger of relegation, without breaking the bank. That's progress. We have gone from a club who hadn't brought through a single academy prospect since Wilf to a club that has given 3 academy players their Premier League debuts. 2 of which have established themselves as Premier League players. 1 of which is now a global star. We have made progress, and a lot of that is down to Roy. Small progress, but progress nonetheless. We are on the brink of pushing to the next level. Sacking the guy who has established us as a semi-respectable Premier League outfit, midway through another season of almost guaranteed safety, because we have a couple of poor results, would be absurd. Fortunately, Parish isn't a moron. So at the very least, I can take solace in the fact that it's not going to happen. I'm just disappointed in the fans and the way they've behaved to someone who has carried out a job for the club with dignity. And the drum w***ers turning up to the training ground fresh from Rymans (is that even open during lockdown?) with some shiny banners they made with glitter is just the tip of the iceberg. They can get f***ed. How anyone still gives them the time of day after what they did to season ticket holders in Block E is beyond me.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mstrobez 19 Feb 21 2.03pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Willo
My view,for what is is worth,and I am cerebrally challenged, is that the squad has its limitations and that another manager could not suddenly get them to perform with much greater aplomb. I appreciate that this viewpoint does not resonate with many on HOL but the smorgasbord of opinions is all part of it's rich tapestry. Well I'm not sure why in all honesty Willo. I had a look at one of our lineups towards the start of last season and I couldn't actually believe we were seriously fielding a team that poor in a Premier League game. We've made a couple of signings since then but with Wilf injured the only player in the squad who provides a real threat is Eze. Admittedly, I'd like to have seen him take up the Wilf position just off the centre forward in his absence.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
palace chick South Croydon 19 Feb 21 2.09pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
mmm – fair, but I think all the injuries are hampering his plans a bit as well... Quite a few key players that fit into that system are not available. He can't revert to 4/3 as he doesn't have the players for it currently. I also think if Schlupp was fit he'd be ahead of Eze as he is basically the key to that system alongside Zaha. Townsend is waning rapidly and PVA can't play the Schlupp role so his hands are tied a bit. Again though, should we be losing 3-0 to Burnley at home? No. Am I giving a balanced opinion rather than an overly emotive or partisan one? Yes. Kouyate, Luka and Reidewald in the midfield central 3 could be done with present injuries?
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Feb 21 2.19pm | |
---|---|
The most worrying aspect has been the seeming lack of motivation. This statement goes a bit too far but is perhaps necessary. None of us want to bend over and get thrashed by Brighton. A similar level of performance to Burnley will not be acceptable. I suspect this will make the players at least discuss the issue.
Red and Blue Army! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 Feb 21 2.33pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mstrobez
People are entitled to dislike Roy and want him out. And they are by far the most vocal section of fans at the moment. I am merely pointing out that they are not representative of the entire fanbase. There are plenty of us out there who are grateful for the job he's done & the manner in which he's gone about his business. Where I suggest that people are categorically wrong is where they make out that the club hasn't progressed under his leadership. That's just factually incorrect. We have gone from a club who routinely survived by the skin of our teeth - spending millions in the process - to a club that is never really in any danger of relegation, without breaking the bank. That's progress. We have gone from a club who hadn't brought through a single academy prospect since Wilf to a club that has given 3 academy players their Premier League debuts. 2 of which have established themselves as Premier League players. 1 of which is now a global star. We have made progress, and a lot of that is down to Roy. Small progress, but progress nonetheless. We are on the brink of pushing to the next level. Sacking the guy who has established us as a semi-respectable Premier League outfit, midway through another season of almost guaranteed safety, because we have a couple of poor results, would be absurd. Fortunately, Parish isn't a moron. So at the very least, I can take solace in the fact that it's not going to happen. I'm just disappointed in the fans and the way they've behaved to someone who has carried out a job for the club with dignity. And the narcissistic drum w***ers turning up to the training ground with some glitter is just the tip of the iceberg.
I'd argue however that it is completely within football fans prerogatives to voice opinions especially when there are concerns but this doesn't make them right nor wrong. I'm not talking about the HF's banner and statement here for clarity, I'm talking about the 'Roy Out' contingent of Palace fans. I don't buy into the theory that there is some enormous gulf between fans knowledge and that of chairmen or even managers when it comes to footballing matters. Most chairmen are just football fans and well, look at FdB, what a player and career he had but half of us could have foreseen his downfall were we privy to his thinking. Pirlo was a genius on the pitch but is hardly setting the world alight with Juventus. There will always be facts, anecdotes and evidence for all sides. Track records or historical facts do not guarantee anything in football and I don't think the anti-RH crowd is going off a 'couple of poor results'. You can argue of course that's the fun but to completely dismiss other opinions is a tad absurd in most circumstances.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
taylors lovechild 19 Feb 21 2.33pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mstrobez
People are entitled to dislike Roy and want him out. And they are by far the most vocal section of fans at the moment. I am merely pointing out that they are not representative of the entire fanbase. There are plenty of us out there who are grateful for the job he's done & the manner in which he's gone about his business. Where I suggest that people are categorically wrong is where they make out that the club hasn't progressed under his leadership. That's just factually incorrect. We have gone from a club who routinely survived by the skin of our teeth - spending millions in the process - to a club that is never really in any danger of relegation, without breaking the bank. That's progress. We have gone from a club who hadn't brought through a single academy prospect since Wilf to a club that has given 3 academy players their Premier League debuts. 2 of which have established themselves as Premier League players. 1 of which is now a global star. We have made progress, and a lot of that is down to Roy. Small progress, but progress nonetheless. We are on the brink of pushing to the next level. Sacking the guy who has established us as a semi-respectable Premier League outfit, midway through another season of almost guaranteed safety, because we have a couple of poor results, would be absurd. Fortunately, Parish isn't a moron. So at the very least, I can take solace in the fact that it's not going to happen. I'm just disappointed in the fans and the way they've behaved to someone who has carried out a job for the club with dignity. And the drum w***ers turning up to the training ground fresh from Rymans (is that even open during lockdown?) with some shiny banners they made with glitter is just the tip of the iceberg. They can get f***ed. How anyone still gives them the time of day after what they did to season ticket holders in Block E is beyond me.
I think that the concern among many is not about results but rather the way we are playing. The last 18 months (maybe more) we have been on a downward spiral where gradually all entertainment is being sucked out and the sole aim seems to be grinding out points by whatever means. There are plenty of excuses for this such as a lack of investment and an ageing squad, but for the first time in the PL it feels like we have far more points than we've deserved, and that worries me. I want Roy to turn things around, but he seems short on ideas and often comes across as resigned to defeat once we go behind. I doubt Roy paid too much attention to the banner or the letter and his response suggested he is clueless as to what our real concerns are (he seemed to imply it was just based on the last couple of performances). I can understand why people still support Roy based on where we are with limited investment, but I can't really see how anyone can say they've enjoyed the football, because it has quite frankly been sh!t.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
southnorwoodhill 19 Feb 21 2.33pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by ASCPFC
The most worrying aspect has been the seeming lack of motivation. This statement goes a bit too far but is perhaps necessary. None of us want to bend over and get thrashed by Brighton. A similar level of performance to Burnley will not be acceptable. I suspect this will make the players at least discuss the issue. Ask any player after a game whether they think they gave everything they could during the game, before, during and after - mentally, physically, attitudinally, and check for an honest response.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 Feb 21 2.38pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by southnorwoodhill
Ask any player after a game whether they think they gave everything they could during the game, before, during and after - mentally, physically, attitudinally, and check for an honest response. Has been a big worry for me. I'd also say look at the Utd game earlier in the season, yes they were poor but we looked well up for it, caught them snapping and beat them with a few goals on their own ground. I haven't witnessed much of that of late and it's immediately disheartening when it looks as though the opposition want it more as soon as we start playing, much more. The odds are already massively against you.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
silvertop Portishead 19 Feb 21 2.38pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Willo
My view,for what is is worth,and I am cerebrally challenged, is that the squad has its limitations and that another manager could not suddenly get them to perform with much greater aplomb. I appreciate that this viewpoint does not resonate with many on HOL but the smorgasbord of opinions is all part of it's rich tapestry. After wading through the willo-babble I agree this view completely.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2023 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.