Covid vaccine

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Spiderman Horsham 04 Apr 21 8.17pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 yes most certainly, just like the 300 million doses the EU has already paid for but never received. Didn’t think they thought it was safe. Still never mind they have acted like complete clowns. Still you carry on blowing their trumpet Interesting your profile was opened 2 years ago and you have never posted ( under this name!), you show the Thai flag. Are you Grumpymort? Edited by Spiderman (04 Apr 2021 8.24pm)
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 Apr 21 8.17pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

yes most certainly, just like the 300 million doses the EU has already paid for but never received.

Didn’t think they thought it was safe. Still never mind they have acted like complete clowns. Still you carry on blowing their trumpet

Interesting your profile was opened 2 years ago and you have never posted ( under this name!), you show the Thai flag. Are you Grumpymort?

Edited by Spiderman (04 Apr 2021 8.24pm)

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Ouzo Dan 04 Apr 21 8.55pm
Slovakia got bored of waiting for the EU to unf*** itself and bought a ton of the sputnik vaccine off of Russia, EU went mental and banned the roll out of the vaccine until they have approved it also threatening to sanction sk if they use it. Exactly the same has happened in Hungary. Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time
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Ouzo Dan 04 Apr 21 8.55pm

Slovakia got bored of waiting for the EU to unf*** itself and bought a ton of the sputnik vaccine off of Russia, EU went mental and banned the roll out of the vaccine until they have approved it also threatening to sanction sk if they use it.
Exactly the same has happened in Hungary.

Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time

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Spiderman Horsham 04 Apr 21 9.09pm
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan Slovakia got bored of waiting for the EU to unf*** itself and bought a ton of the sputnik vaccine off of Russia, EU went mental and banned the roll out of the vaccine until they have approved it also threatening to sanction sk if they use it. Exactly the same has happened in Hungary. How immoral of them. Hope you are keeping ok
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 Apr 21 9.09pm

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

How immoral of them. Hope you are keeping ok

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 04 Apr 21 10.09pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 EU citizens 'will die' because the UK/AZ has withheld the vaccines that the EU have legitimately ordered but never delivered, even after they were paid for. Even after that, the EU has exported 21 million vaccine doses to the UK, significantly boosting the vaccine roll out there. You should be grateful the EU has helped save thousands of UK lives as that's exactly what they have done. if you really believe this you are a clown
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 04 Apr 21 10.09pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

EU citizens 'will die' because the UK/AZ has withheld the vaccines that the EU have legitimately ordered but never delivered, even after they were paid for. Even after that, the EU has exported 21 million vaccine doses to the UK, significantly boosting the vaccine roll out there. You should be grateful the EU has helped save thousands of UK lives as that's exactly what they have done.

if you really believe this you are a clown

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Apr 21 10.33pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 They've already sent 21 million vaccine doses to the UK. How many have the UK sent to other countries? I'll tell you, a big fat zero. As others here will confirm I am a big supporter of the EU and remain convinced Brexit is a huge mistake. However, I think you are missing the point on this issue. Where the vaccines are actually manufactured is totally unimportant. That depends on capacity and a lengthy supply chain. It's little different to BMW cars being assembled in South Africa from parts supplied from Germany and then sold in the USA. They are still German cars. What matters here is where the intellectual property is held and that is in the UK. AstraZeneca were approached by the Jenner Institute to further develop their vaccine and then produce it. Both are UK based. Add to that the fact that the UK government placed large orders very early to ensure that the funds were available to make sure the huge task of scaling up production went ahead without any impediments. Finding the right sites for that scale up was always going to be unrestricted by borders. On top of that is the fact that the Jenner Institute, when choosing their partner, insisted that who-ever it was undertook to supply the Third World on a non-profit basis. Something that hasn't attracted a lot of publicity but is very important. Where that supply actually comes from is wholly irrelevant. So the fact that some of our supplies are being shipped from a factory in the EU is beside the point. They are still our supplies. We kick-started the scale up and if we had not done so there would not have been ANY for the EU by now. You have nothing at all to complain about on that score and your politicians are misleading you if you are basing your opinions on their attitudes. That though is not to say that the UK government won't listen and react to the need to divert supplies if they will be more beneficial in places suffering huge increases in infection rates. That does not though just apply to EU countries. It applies everywhere and especially to the Third World. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 04 Apr 21 10.33pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

They've already sent 21 million vaccine doses to the UK. How many have the UK sent to other countries? I'll tell you, a big fat zero.

As others here will confirm I am a big supporter of the EU and remain convinced Brexit is a huge mistake.

However, I think you are missing the point on this issue. Where the vaccines are actually manufactured is totally unimportant. That depends on capacity and a lengthy supply chain. It's little different to BMW cars being assembled in South Africa from parts supplied from Germany and then sold in the USA. They are still German cars.

What matters here is where the intellectual property is held and that is in the UK. AstraZeneca were approached by the Jenner Institute to further develop their vaccine and then produce it. Both are UK based.

Add to that the fact that the UK government placed large orders very early to ensure that the funds were available to make sure the huge task of scaling up production went ahead without any impediments. Finding the right sites for that scale up was always going to be unrestricted by borders.

On top of that is the fact that the Jenner Institute, when choosing their partner, insisted that who-ever it was undertook to supply the Third World on a non-profit basis. Something that hasn't attracted a lot of publicity but is very important. Where that supply actually comes from is wholly irrelevant.

So the fact that some of our supplies are being shipped from a factory in the EU is beside the point. They are still our supplies. We kick-started the scale up and if we had not done so there would not have been ANY for the EU by now. You have nothing at all to complain about on that score and your politicians are misleading you if you are basing your opinions on their attitudes.

That though is not to say that the UK government won't listen and react to the need to divert supplies if they will be more beneficial in places suffering huge increases in infection rates. That does not though just apply to EU countries. It applies everywhere and especially to the Third World.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Orange1290 05 Apr 21 4.08am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As others here will confirm I am a big supporter of the EU and remain convinced Brexit is a huge mistake. However, I think you are missing the point on this issue. Where the vaccines are actually manufactured is totally unimportant. That depends on capacity and a lengthy supply chain. It's little different to BMW cars being assembled in South Africa from parts supplied from Germany and then sold in the USA. They are still German cars. What matters here is where the intellectual property is held and that is in the UK. AstraZeneca were approached by the Jenner Institute to further develop their vaccine and then produce it. Both are UK based. Add to that the fact that the UK government placed large orders very early to ensure that the funds were available to make sure the huge task of scaling up production went ahead without any impediments. Finding the right sites for that scale up was always going to be unrestricted by borders. On top of that is the fact that the Jenner Institute, when choosing their partner, insisted that who-ever it was undertook to supply the Third World on a non-profit basis. Something that hasn't attracted a lot of publicity but is very important. Where that supply actually comes from is wholly irrelevant. So the fact that some of our supplies are being shipped from a factory in the EU is beside the point. They are still our supplies. We kick-started the scale up and if we had not done so there would not have been ANY for the EU by now. You have nothing at all to complain about on that score and your politicians are misleading you if you are basing your opinions on their attitudes. That though is not to say that the UK government won't listen and react to the need to divert supplies if they will be more beneficial in places suffering huge increases in infection rates. That does not though just apply to EU countries. It applies everywhere and especially to the Third World. Intellectual property? Most of the vaccines exported by EU countries to the UK have been Pfizer, nothing to do with UK IP. European countries have exported around a third of their production, the UK being the largest recipient. The UK hasn't helped a single other nation by exporting any vaccine doses. Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area: Both Britain and the EU began investing in vaccine production in 2020, with the EU providing 336 million euros to producers to scale up facilities, and the UK allocating 240 million pounds to both production and longer-term research facilities. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

05 Apr 21 4.08am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As others here will confirm I am a big supporter of the EU and remain convinced Brexit is a huge mistake.

Intellectual property?

Most of the vaccines exported by EU countries to the UK have been Pfizer, nothing to do with UK IP. European countries have exported around a third of their production, the UK being the largest recipient. The UK hasn't helped a single other nation by exporting any vaccine doses.

Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area:

Both Britain and the EU began investing in vaccine production in 2020, with the EU providing 336 million euros to producers to scale up facilities, and the UK allocating 240 million pounds to both production and longer-term research facilities.

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Helmet46 Croydon 05 Apr 21 8.06am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Intellectual property? Most of the vaccines exported by EU countries to the UK have been Pfizer, nothing to do with UK IP. European countries have exported around a third of their production, the UK being the largest recipient. The UK hasn't helped a single other nation by exporting any vaccine doses. Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area: Both Britain and the EU began investing in vaccine production in 2020, with the EU providing 336 million euros to producers to scale up facilities, and the UK allocating 240 million pounds to both production and longer-term research facilities. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am) Fabulous stuff but, if the AZ vaccine is so important to the EU why are there so many unused ones in Germany / France etc? The citizens of the EU don’t trust it - in part due to comments by Macron etc - it doesn’t get used but they want AZ to export more to them? Why? So these doses can sit in warehouses there rather than save lives here, where it is used and trusted? Where’s its made is not relevant as its manufactured by a private company under contract. The EU haven’t personally exported anything. The EU is not a country - YET. Let’s see how much control each individual member has of stuff that goes on within its borders in, say, 25 years. All that’s happened is that a UK/Swedish private company has sent stuff, manufactured in Belgium, to other countries - under contract. That the EU claim THEY have exported again shows their true colours. Maybe, going forwards, we shouldn’t allow our manufacturers to be based in the EU? If this has taught us anything it should be to ensure that key UK manufacturing should be on UK soil, otherwise an undemocratic regime can attempt to do what the EU is doing? (Exactly why, if Scotland secures independence, Royal Naval shipbuilding should immediately be moved to England, NI or Wales). The EU have royally f***ed up here and rather than admit that and rectify their position they do as they always do and lash out at others. They’d rather Slovakians die than use the Russian vaccine because the EU haven’t approved it. (But have Slovakia? I assume so). Assume there can’t be many people left who truly believe that the EU is nothing more than a trading block, with ambitions to remain as solely a trading block? (And people who voted Brexit were imperialists?) Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 8.25am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 05 Apr 21 8.06am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Intellectual property?

Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area:

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am)

Fabulous stuff but, if the AZ vaccine is so important to the EU why are there so many unused ones in Germany / France etc? The citizens of the EU don’t trust it - in part due to comments by Macron etc - it doesn’t get used but they want AZ to export more to them? Why? So these doses can sit in warehouses there rather than save lives here, where it is used and trusted?

Where’s its made is not relevant as its manufactured by a private company under contract. The EU haven’t personally exported anything. The EU is not a country - YET. Let’s see how much control each individual member has of stuff that goes on within its borders in, say, 25 years.

All that’s happened is that a UK/Swedish private company has sent stuff, manufactured in Belgium, to other countries - under contract. That the EU claim THEY have exported again shows their true colours. Maybe, going forwards, we shouldn’t allow our manufacturers to be based in the EU? If this has taught us anything it should be to ensure that key UK manufacturing should be on UK soil, otherwise an undemocratic regime can attempt to do what the EU is doing? (Exactly why, if Scotland secures independence, Royal Naval shipbuilding should immediately be moved to England, NI or Wales).

The EU have royally f***ed up here and rather than admit that and rectify their position they do as they always do and lash out at others. They’d rather Slovakians die than use the Russian vaccine because the EU haven’t approved it. (But have Slovakia? I assume so).
Assume there can’t be many people left who truly believe that the EU is nothing more than a trading block, with ambitions to remain as solely a trading block? (And people who voted Brexit were imperialists?)

Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 8.25am)

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Orange1290 05 Apr 21 8.23am
Originally posted by Helmet46 Fabulous stuff but, if the AZ vaccine is so important to the EU why are there so many unused ones in Germany / France etc? The citizens of the EU don’t trust it - in part due to comments by Macron etc - it doesn’t get used but they want AZ to export more to them? Why? So these doses can sit in warehouses there rather than save lives here, where it is used and trusted? Where’s its made is not relevant as its manufactured by a private company under contract. The EU haven’t personally exported anything. The EU is not a country - YET. Let’s see how much control each individual member has in 25 years. All that’s happened is that a private company has sent stuff, manufactured in Belgium, to other countries - under contract. That the EU claim THEY have exported again shows their true colours. The EU have royally f***ed up here and rather than admit that and rectify their position they do as they always do and lash out at others. They’d rather Slovakians die than use the Russian vaccine because the EU haven’t approved it. (But have Slovakia? I assume so). Assume there can’t be many people left who truly believe that the EU is nothing more than a trading block? Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 8.16am) Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK. I specified that 'EU countries' had exported the millions of vaccines to the UK. Any reference to the EU implicitly refers to its members, which are countries. It's the UK that's been "lashing out" over the very poor brexit deal that it's had to accept after wasting 4 years infighting rather than negotiating with the EU. So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? Looks like brexit sour grapes but are there other reasons? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else? Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

05 Apr 21 8.23am

Originally posted by Helmet46

All that’s happened is that a private company has sent stuff, manufactured in Belgium, to other countries - under contract. That the EU claim THEY have exported again shows their true colours.

Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 8.16am)

Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK.

I specified that 'EU countries' had exported the millions of vaccines to the UK. Any reference to the EU implicitly refers to its members, which are countries. It's the UK that's been "lashing out" over the very poor brexit deal that it's had to accept after wasting 4 years infighting rather than negotiating with the EU.

So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? Looks like brexit sour grapes but are there other reasons? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else?

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Helmet46 Croydon 05 Apr 21 8.28am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK. I specified that 'EU countries' had exported the millions of vaccines to the UK. Any reference to the EU implicitly refers to its members, which are countries. It's the UK that's been "lashing out" over the very poor brexit deal that it's had to accept after wasting 4 years infighting rather than negotiating with the EU. So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else? Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.25am) The “EU” has not exported anything. Private companies in EU countries have, under contract. As I said UK companies should ensure all manufacturing is on UK shores. The EU has stockpiles of unused AZ vaccine - why do they want more? And that’s the fault of fools like Macron. And here we go - Brexit again. I voted remain but I tell you what - I’m glad we’re out. Other thoughts - the Pfizer vaccine is made in Belgium and a plant in Germany. (Kalamazoo is manufacturing in the US for America). It HAS to export to get vaccines out to the world to fulfil its contractual obligations. It is hugely disingenuous for the EU Empire to claim export credit for that vaccine. It’s not the EU - it’s Pfizer exporting. That it’s on EU soil us just not relevant. AZ is made in the UK, EU, Asia - and the Indian location is the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world and has exported 60 million doses to 76 countries, so its striving to fulfil its contracts. It’s also sold at cost. Pfizer is sold for profit. AZ allowed its vaccine to be made globally. Has Pfizer? So my question is - why are the EU clamouring for a vaccine that they are not using? Just deflects the blame from their vaccine rollout clusterf**k. Oh, and do you approve of the EU treatment of countries that negotiate with Russian vaccine manufacturers? Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 9.22am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 05 Apr 21 8.28am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK.

So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else?

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.25am)

The “EU” has not exported anything. Private companies in EU countries have, under contract. As I said UK companies should ensure all manufacturing is on UK shores. The EU has stockpiles of unused AZ vaccine - why do they want more? And that’s the fault of fools like Macron.

And here we go - Brexit again. I voted remain but I tell you what - I’m glad we’re out.

Other thoughts - the Pfizer vaccine is made in Belgium and a plant in Germany. (Kalamazoo is manufacturing in the US for America). It HAS to export to get vaccines out to the world to fulfil its contractual obligations. It is hugely disingenuous for the EU Empire to claim export credit for that vaccine. It’s not the EU - it’s Pfizer exporting. That it’s on EU soil us just not relevant.

AZ is made in the UK, EU, Asia - and the Indian location is the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world and has exported 60 million doses to 76 countries, so its striving to fulfil its contracts. It’s also sold at cost. Pfizer is sold for profit. AZ allowed its vaccine to be made globally. Has Pfizer?

So my question is - why are the EU clamouring for a vaccine that they are not using? Just deflects the blame from their vaccine rollout clusterf**k. Oh, and do you approve of the EU treatment of countries that negotiate with Russian vaccine manufacturers?

Edited by Helmet46 (05 Apr 2021 9.22am)

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Spiderman Horsham 05 Apr 21 8.37am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK. I specified that 'EU countries' had exported the millions of vaccines to the UK. Any reference to the EU implicitly refers to its members, which are countries. It's the UK that's been "lashing out" over the very poor brexit deal that it's had to accept after wasting 4 years infighting rather than negotiating with the EU. So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? Looks like brexit sour grapes but are there other reasons? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else? Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am) Are you saying for 4 years we did not try to negotiate with the EU? As a matter of interest where do you live? Have you had your vaccinations?
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Spiderman

Horsham 05 Apr 21 8.37am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK.

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am)

Are you saying for 4 years we did not try to negotiate with the EU? As a matter of interest where do you live? Have you had your vaccinations?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Apr 21 9.08am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Intellectual property? Most of the vaccines exported by EU countries to the UK have been Pfizer, nothing to do with UK IP. European countries have exported around a third of their production, the UK being the largest recipient. The UK hasn't helped a single other nation by exporting any vaccine doses. Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area: Both Britain and the EU began investing in vaccine production in 2020, with the EU providing 336 million euros to producers to scale up facilities, and the UK allocating 240 million pounds to both production and longer-term research facilities. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am) Are you deliberating missing the point or do you really not understand it? Pfizer is an American owned business. AstraZeneca is British. The EU is not involved. Countries don't own or export vaccines! Companies do and where their manufacturing is done in today's world is an irrelevance in this debate. Your own figures, which for the sake of argument lets assume are correct, show that per capita the UK was about 6 times greater than the EU in its support. We also placed our contracts earlier than the EU. All these things have consequences. It's an established principle that when contracts are placed they get honoured in order. Those who order last get served last. We were prepared to take a greater risk and that has paid off. The EU doesn't have a leg to stand on in this matter and threatening export bans will do its future reputation as an honest partner no good at all. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Apr 21 9.08am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Intellectual property?

Here's a very insightful article on what's been happening in this area:

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 4.30am)

Are you deliberating missing the point or do you really not understand it?

Pfizer is an American owned business. AstraZeneca is British. The EU is not involved.

Countries don't own or export vaccines! Companies do and where their manufacturing is done in today's world is an irrelevance in this debate.

Your own figures, which for the sake of argument lets assume are correct, show that per capita the UK was about 6 times greater than the EU in its support.

We also placed our contracts earlier than the EU. All these things have consequences. It's an established principle that when contracts are placed they get honoured in order. Those who order last get served last.

We were prepared to take a greater risk and that has paid off. The EU doesn't have a leg to stand on in this matter and threatening export bans will do its future reputation as an honest partner no good at all.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Badger11 Beckenham 05 Apr 21 9.37am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK. I specified that 'EU countries' had exported the millions of vaccines to the UK. Any reference to the EU implicitly refers to its members, which are countries. It's the UK that's been "lashing out" over the very poor brexit deal that it's had to accept after wasting 4 years infighting rather than negotiating with the EU. So, why have the UK not exported a single vaccine to a single country when this is a global issue? Looks like brexit sour grapes but are there other reasons? The EU countries have exported 80 million vaccine doses to 33 different countries excluding their Covax comittments and this includes 21 million, mostly non-AZ vaccine doses to the UK, which has been a major factor in the 'success' of the UK vaccine rollout. The EU has helped the UK, so why is the UK remaining so insular and not helping anyone else? Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am) Got it you are President Ursula von der Leyen and I claim my prize. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 05 Apr 21 9.37am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Yes, it certainly is 'fabulous stuff' when countries help other countries but this doesn't seem to apply to the UK.

Edited by Orange1290 (05 Apr 2021 8.26am)

Got it you are President Ursula von der Leyen and I claim my prize.

One more point

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