Not the instigators. Not the people at the very top who were, in the main, people still within the Labour party during the 2017 electoral campaign. Senior posts. You can even see their message exchanges which were leaked, when the exit polls came out. They were gutted. They 100% believed that Corbyn was going to lose badly. Absolutely distraught when he did as well as he did.

And within 6 months, many of them gone. All into either the Peoples Vote campaign or else organsiations pushing for the same agenda.

My argument is that all the data was available, in the public sphere, let alone what any organisation with their own internal research capability could garner, for anybody with anything even approaching a modicum of political nous to see how potentially disastrous a manifesto pledge around offering a second referendum on Brexit, with a remain option on the ballot, was.

And then following the results of the 2019 Euro elections, even more so.

Hence why I can only believe that anybody pushing for a second referendum via the Labour Party either did so because they knew it would smash the parties chances of winning an election (and let's not forget that the Tories margin of victory in 2017 was around the 2%-3% mark) and thus destroy Corbyn and his cronies.

Or they were thick as f***. Myopic arseholes who could not see further than their virtue signalling narcissism. Seriously stupid people, unable to even begin to comprehend how the British electoral system works and how the available voting patterns showed a second referendum policy was a guarantee of utter failure for anybody pushing it.

With the proof in the pudding. December 13th 2019 offering every bit of evidence required.

That simple.

Edited by Matov (28 May 2021 12.28pm)

But the outcome of pushing a second referendum manifesto promise was not 'fluid'. The data was there. In plain sight. With huge amounts of electoral evidence to back it up.

And yet Labour still end up with their manifesto pledge, pushed by supposedly 'educated' people. Electoral suicide. They ended up getting slaughtered with only the Brexit Party saving them from even worse.

You can argue about IQ's all you want but the reality is that if you though a second referendum was an idea that was going to go down well in a general election then you are as thick as s***. Far dumber than any of the most ignorant Brexiteers you chose to look down your noses at.

Beyond belief really and I don't believe those people at the top of the People Vote campaign, and their allies within the PLP, ever truly believed it would happen. All I see is a very machiavellian step to make Corbyn, and the wider Left, lose their grip on the Labour Party.

The real brain-deads are those who bought the hype. Dumber than a box of frogs.

I was a remain and still am.

I was a remain and still am. I genuinely believe that a 2nd referendum within a year would have produced an overwhelming remain vote given the 48% would repeat their vote but given a large chunk of leavers voted for reasons wholly unconnected with the EU I was confident the leave vote would melt away.

Obviously I scanned past the fact that it was a one off and - the subject of this post - was quietly part of the deeply condescending patrician attitude of those who believed the simple folk would either come to their senses or do what they usually do and stay away.

However after 3 years the public was sick of it and the issue was dead. If it meant the British Isles sinking into the Atlantic the public would still have reaffirmed leave. 2019 rammed the nail into the coffin and remain was buried.

Tory remainers saw the point and kept schtum. The SNP used it as leverage for other reasons. The lib dems persisted with zero profit but at least could justify it as maintenance of their ideals.

Labour!? In a deeply divided party and nation what were they thinking having that on their manifesto? How disconnected was it possible to be?

Dumb is the word.

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.

People who are highly educated have no choice but to appear totally left wing in every aspect, particularly at academic institutions, otherwise they would either get the sack, get moved 'sideways' or be generally vilified for their 'racist' or 'fascist' views. One only has to look at the careers of people such as David Starkey or Douglas Murray. They've spoken out; they're going nowhere now.
I'm as educated as it gets, I have a sentence after my name. I have also worked my entire life. I have stepped down from academia due to the stifling atmosphere of censorship, on thought, speech and particularly research funding. On the odd occasion, I will critique some research (truthfully, so usually negatively), I write the odd bit of my own hobby stuff. However, as per the original post, and to answer the original question: I was born poor and was always Labour. I'm old Labour. I haven't voted for Labour since John Smith. I don't believe they represent the working class, or even equality. They highlight working class people's genuine concerns as 'fascist' or 'racist' rather than deal with those concerns. They champion immigrants without any consideration of the actual context. They highlight minority rights over the rights of everyone. The whole party is a joke. The left wing has been taken over by people who are basically the commintern for the few, not the many. The average person's view is 'bias' or 'prejudice' and literally everything is 'offensive'. There is no policy for the masses, they are actually anti-the British person. Who votes for their own hangman? You know the answer and are living in the consequences of that.
The only way Labour will ever win again will be a massive Tory cock up, most likely the economy. Unfortunately, there probably is a decent chance of that at some stage. Whether Labour can ever get their sh1t together, even then, is another question.