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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 02 Jun 21 8.38pm
Originally posted by TheBigToePunt We tend to forget that nobody has a magic recipe when it comes to finding good value in the market. Brentford, Peterborough, and every other club also sign their share of players who don't do as well as hoped for. In any event, finding a player to do well in League 1 or even the Championship is, by definition, easier to do than finding one to improve a mid-table premier league side. As the required standard gets higher, the number of people capable of meeting it decreases. We will see if Brentford can make their model work in the top flight - the evidence to date suggests not. If you look at a list of players Brentford have sold at a profit there's not many that you could say have been able to step up to the top flight. Watkins and Konsa have, but the jury is very much out on Maupay, Benrahma and Mepham, and I doubt anyone would want us to sign Andre Gray or Scott Hogan. Most of the players to have done well for Brentford before being sold at a profit aren't ones that would have been much use to us the moment we became a top flight side. They find players who they turn into good championship assets, and fair play to them for that, but finding lower league players who can do well in the premier league is much harder to do. Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Jun 2021 5.00pm) Very good point, you forget some of them “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 02 Jun 21 8.38pm

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

We tend to forget that nobody has a magic recipe when it comes to finding good value in the market. Brentford, Peterborough, and every other club also sign their share of players who don't do as well as hoped for.

In any event, finding a player to do well in League 1 or even the Championship is, by definition, easier to do than finding one to improve a mid-table premier league side. As the required standard gets higher, the number of people capable of meeting it decreases. We will see if Brentford can make their model work in the top flight - the evidence to date suggests not.

If you look at a list of players Brentford have sold at a profit there's not many that you could say have been able to step up to the top flight. Watkins and Konsa have, but the jury is very much out on Maupay, Benrahma and Mepham, and I doubt anyone would want us to sign Andre Gray or Scott Hogan. Most of the players to have done well for Brentford before being sold at a profit aren't ones that would have been much use to us the moment we became a top flight side. They find players who they turn into good championship assets, and fair play to them for that, but finding lower league players who can do well in the premier league is much harder to do.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Jun 2021 5.00pm)

Very good point, you forget some of them

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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Eaglecoops CR3 03 Jun 21 8.01am
I am surprised by the lack of criticism on here about the current state of our playing squad. We are in the top league in the world and have been since 2013. How on earth have we managed to get ourselves in a situation where we have no manager, a massively ageing squad and 12 players out of contract at the same time. Has there ever been another team in the PL in this predicament? Most Palace fans just shrug it off as if to say, this is the Palace way, but from a business perspective it is far from a satisfactory position. So who is to blame? The previous manager, Dougie, Harris & Blitzer, Parish? Maybe everything will be ok and there is a master plan that is about to spring into action with millions of pounds squirrelled away for such an occasion, but I’m not convinced. If this is the turning point in our extended PL tenure then we will almost certainly look at this moment as the catalyst. I remain hopeful that we have enough of our decent players wanting to extend their stay and some decent youngsters in mind to buy. One thing is for sure, the next couple of months are absolutely vital in our future.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 03 Jun 21 8.01am

I am surprised by the lack of criticism on here about the current state of our playing squad.

We are in the top league in the world and have been since 2013. How on earth have we managed to get ourselves in a situation where we have no manager, a massively ageing squad and 12 players out of contract at the same time. Has there ever been another team in the PL in this predicament?

Most Palace fans just shrug it off as if to say, this is the Palace way, but from a business perspective it is far from a satisfactory position.

So who is to blame? The previous manager, Dougie, Harris & Blitzer, Parish? Maybe everything will be ok and there is a master plan that is about to spring into action with millions of pounds squirrelled away for such an occasion, but I’m not convinced.

If this is the turning point in our extended PL tenure then we will almost certainly look at this moment as the catalyst. I remain hopeful that we have enough of our decent players wanting to extend their stay and some decent youngsters in mind to buy. One thing is for sure, the next couple of months are absolutely vital in our future.

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Midlands Eagle 03 Jun 21 8.10am
Originally posted by Eaglecoops How on earth have we managed to get ourselves in a situation where we have no manager, a massively ageing squad and 12 players out of contract at the same time. So who is to blame? The previous manager, Dougie, Harris & Blitzer, Parish? The buck always stops at the top but perhaps the man at the top has had his attention diverted by the forthcoming documentary that no doubt shows him in a good light
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Midlands Eagle

03 Jun 21 8.10am

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Originally posted by Eaglecoops

How on earth have we managed to get ourselves in a situation where we have no manager, a massively ageing squad and 12 players out of contract at the same time.

So who is to blame? The previous manager, Dougie, Harris & Blitzer, Parish?

The buck always stops at the top but perhaps the man at the top has had his attention diverted by the forthcoming documentary that no doubt shows him in a good light

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dreamwaverider London 03 Jun 21 8.25am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle The buck always stops at the top but perhaps the man at the top has had his attention diverted by the forthcoming documentary that no doubt shows him in a good light The problem is the top is the other side of the Atlantic with little active interest here. What Palace need is an active owner like Leicester. If we had them we would be building a new ground at Crystal Palce National Park by now.
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dreamwaverider

London 03 Jun 21 8.25am

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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

The buck always stops at the top but perhaps the man at the top has had his attention diverted by the forthcoming documentary that no doubt shows him in a good light

The problem is the top is the other side of the Atlantic with little active interest here. What Palace need is an active owner like Leicester. If we had them we would be building a new ground at Crystal Palce National Park by now.

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Midlands Eagle 03 Jun 21 8.46am
Originally posted by dreamwaverider The problem is the top is the other side of the Atlantic with little active interest here. Steve Parish runs the club and as chairman is responsible for forward planning. The Americans may be able to outvote Parish but I doubt whether they do as their knowledge of the beautiful game is rather limited and I'm guessing that the stories in the media that the Americans want Cooper as the next manager rather than Parish's choice are rather fanciful in the extreme as they probably don't have a clue who Cooper is
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Midlands Eagle

03 Jun 21 8.46am

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The problem is the top is the other side of the Atlantic with little active interest here.

Steve Parish runs the club and as chairman is responsible for forward planning. The Americans may be able to outvote Parish but I doubt whether they do as their knowledge of the beautiful game is rather limited and I'm guessing that the stories in the media that the Americans want Cooper as the next manager rather than Parish's choice are rather fanciful in the extreme as they probably don't have a clue who Cooper is

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Elphers40 Northants 03 Jun 21 9.31am
It does feel like this is a crucial juncture for us - and I do think the impact of the global pandemic on football finances , specifically players wages (excluding blue chip players who will always earn £150k plus a week - until the authorities bring in a much needed wage cap) will actually help us in our rebuild. Ideally that would be limited to 5 or 6 new faces and not the mass overhaul that faces us now - but if the plan is to adapt to a different style it is understandable that many of the current squad will need replacing with younger more athletic (and energetic) players - so letting contracts run down under our circumstances isn’t the end of the world imo. Now the season is over the board need to act swiftly to ensure the preparation work that needs to be done in advance of a new season gets going - otherwise we might be off to a slow start and an awful lot of pressure on our new manager from the outset.
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Elphers40

Northants 03 Jun 21 9.31am

It does feel like this is a crucial juncture for us - and I do think the impact of the global pandemic on football finances , specifically players wages (excluding blue chip players who will always earn £150k plus a week - until the authorities bring in a much needed wage cap) will actually help us in our rebuild.
Ideally that would be limited to 5 or 6 new faces and not the mass overhaul that faces us now - but if the plan is to adapt to a different style it is understandable that many of the current squad will need replacing with younger more athletic (and energetic) players - so letting contracts run down under our circumstances isn’t the end of the world imo.
Now the season is over the board need to act swiftly to ensure the preparation work that needs to be done in advance of a new season gets going - otherwise we might be off to a slow start and an awful lot of pressure on our new manager from the outset.

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Midlands Eagle 03 Jun 21 9.46am
Originally posted by Elphers40 Now the season is over the board need to act swiftly to ensure the preparation work that needs to be done in advance of a new season gets going - otherwise we might be off to a slow start and an awful lot of pressure on our new manager from the outset. If we were to go with Cooper I wonder how much knowledge he has of Premier League players. Conversely he would have a greater knowledge of Championship players than we would
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Midlands Eagle

03 Jun 21 9.46am

Originally posted by Elphers40

Now the season is over the board need to act swiftly to ensure the preparation work that needs to be done in advance of a new season gets going - otherwise we might be off to a slow start and an awful lot of pressure on our new manager from the outset.

If we were to go with Cooper I wonder how much knowledge he has of Premier League players.

Conversely he would have a greater knowledge of Championship players than we would

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 03 Jun 21 9.50am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle If we were to go with Cooper I wonder how much knowledge he has of Premier League players. Conversely he would have a greater knowledge of Championship players than we would That may come in handy, season after next Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 03 Jun 21 9.50am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

If we were to go with Cooper I wonder how much knowledge he has of Premier League players.

Conversely he would have a greater knowledge of Championship players than we would

That may come in handy, season after next

Old, Ungifted and White

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doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 03 Jun 21 1.35pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops I am surprised by the lack of criticism on here about the current state of our playing squad. ... So who is to blame? The previous manager, Dougie, Harris & Blitzer, Parish? Maybe everything will be ok and there is a master plan that is about to spring into action with millions of pounds squirrelled away for such an occasion, but I’m not convinced. ... We spent a lot of money 4/5 years ago in a very short period to avoid the drop, hence Hodgson having virtually no transfer kitty and even the AWB money went for other purposes. In the absence of finance, managing the player resources are likely to have been a real headache and Parish and Co seem to have chosen to bring in 'free' or cheap experienced PL players but paid them over the odds all in nan attempt to stay in the PL and push the proverbial can down the road. The question is what were their other realistic options? Like, I suspect many long-term Palace fans (nearly 50 years in my case), I have enjoyed the unexpected lengthy stay in the PL (Including the first two and a half years of Hodgson) and am prepared for the consequences of the men at the top's decisions over this period. Edited by doombear (03 Jun 2021 1.36pm)
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doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 03 Jun 21 1.35pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I am surprised by the lack of criticism on here about the current state of our playing squad.
...

...

We spent a lot of money 4/5 years ago in a very short period to avoid the drop, hence Hodgson having virtually no transfer kitty and even the AWB money went for other purposes.

Like, I suspect many long-term Palace fans (nearly 50 years in my case), I have enjoyed the unexpected lengthy stay in the PL (Including the first two and a half years of Hodgson) and am prepared for the consequences of the men at the top's decisions over this period.

Edited by doombear (03 Jun 2021 1.36pm)

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Terry Ven 03 Jun 21 3.41pm
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer For me it's not so much the ups and downs, it's the feeling that we are going nowhere. When are we going to get on with something like the new stand, or a place in Europe? I concur Spider, good response. Us old'ns have lived through many ups and downs in our club. We're not exactly immune, but perhaps more tolerant and understanding of some of the goings on.
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Terry Ven

03 Jun 21 3.41pm

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

For me it's not so much the ups and downs, it's the feeling that we are going nowhere. When are we going to get on with something like the new stand, or a place in Europe?

I concur Spider, good response. Us old'ns have lived through many ups and downs in our club. We're not exactly immune, but perhaps more tolerant and understanding of some of the goings on.

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Eaglecoops CR3 03 Jun 21 4.12pm
Originally posted by doombear We spent a lot of money 4/5 years ago in a very short period to avoid the drop, hence Hodgson having virtually no transfer kitty and even the AWB money went for other purposes. In the absence of finance, managing the player resources are likely to have been a real headache and Parish and Co seem to have chosen to bring in 'free' or cheap experienced PL players but paid them over the odds all in nan attempt to stay in the PL and push the proverbial can down the road. The question is what were their other realistic options? Like, I suspect many long-term Palace fans (nearly 50 years in my case), I have enjoyed the unexpected lengthy stay in the PL (Including the first two and a half years of Hodgson) and am prepared for the consequences of the men at the top's decisions over this period. Edited by doombear (03 Jun 2021 1.36pm) Well I suppose the alternative is to look a bit harder at the lower leagues for players who could have helped out without spending £5m-10m a pop or give some of the younger lads a go, but we all know that was never going to happen. I have been disappointed with our decisions to give players such as Wickham new contracts when they never played and were on decent salaries. We also left some positions without cover over numerous transfer windows and played certain players way too often when they were knackered. We clearly took some big risks as highlighted by Parish's classic line about the sun rising when we had no strikers. Some will say we were forced into what we did by circumstance but I reckon a lot of it was by design, possibly partly due to a lack of trust in Dougie's ability to find players who can make the step up to PL level and Roy's lack of trust in either the unfancied squad members or youth to follow his match tactics. I don't want to linger on Roy as he did what he needed to, however the legacy we are left with is not great. I just hope the rumours about having some money to spend is true. When we have bought more recently it has been decent, (Eze, Butland and possibly Ferguson although the jury is out in his case). More of these are needed that is for sure.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 03 Jun 21 4.12pm

Originally posted by doombear

We spent a lot of money 4/5 years ago in a very short period to avoid the drop, hence Hodgson having virtually no transfer kitty and even the AWB money went for other purposes.

In the absence of finance, managing the player resources are likely to have been a real headache and Parish and Co seem to have chosen to bring in 'free' or cheap experienced PL players but paid them over the odds all in nan attempt to stay in the PL and push the proverbial can down the road. The question is what were their other realistic options?

Like, I suspect many long-term Palace fans (nearly 50 years in my case), I have enjoyed the unexpected lengthy stay in the PL (Including the first two and a half years of Hodgson) and am prepared for the consequences of the men at the top's decisions over this period.

Edited by doombear (03 Jun 2021 1.36pm)

Well I suppose the alternative is to look a bit harder at the lower leagues for players who could have helped out without spending £5m-10m a pop or give some of the younger lads a go, but we all know that was never going to happen.

I have been disappointed with our decisions to give players such as Wickham new contracts when they never played and were on decent salaries. We also left some positions without cover over numerous transfer windows and played certain players way too often when they were knackered. We clearly took some big risks as highlighted by Parish's classic line about the sun rising when we had no strikers.

Some will say we were forced into what we did by circumstance but I reckon a lot of it was by design, possibly partly due to a lack of trust in Dougie's ability to find players who can make the step up to PL level and Roy's lack of trust in either the unfancied squad members or youth to follow his match tactics.

I don't want to linger on Roy as he did what he needed to, however the legacy we are left with is not great.

I just hope the rumours about having some money to spend is true. When we have bought more recently it has been decent, (Eze, Butland and possibly Ferguson although the jury is out in his case). More of these are needed that is for sure.

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palace99 New Mills 03 Jun 21 6.11pm
Originally posted by TheBigToePunt We tend to forget that nobody has a magic recipe when it comes to finding good value in the market. Brentford, Peterborough, and every other club also sign their share of players who don't do as well as hoped for. In any event, finding a player to do well in League 1 or even the Championship is, by definition, easier to do than finding one to improve a mid-table premier league side. As the required standard gets higher, the number of people capable of meeting it decreases. We will see if Brentford can make their model work in the top flight - the evidence to date suggests not. If you look at a list of players Brentford have sold at a profit there's not many that you could say have been able to step up to the top flight. Watkins and Konsa have, but the jury is very much out on Maupay, Benrahma and Mepham, and I doubt anyone would want us to sign Andre Gray or Scott Hogan. Most of the players to have done well for Brentford before being sold at a profit aren't ones that would have been much use to us the moment we became a top flight side. They find players who they turn into good championship assets, and fair play to them for that, but finding lower league players who can do well in the premier league is much harder to do. Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Jun 2021 5.00pm) Fair comment re the harder it gets the higher up the league you are, but you are missing the point a little. Brentford (were) are Championship level and Peterborough are league 1 so they are buying players from lower leagues who can step up and play at a that level. I think both have proved they are quite successful at this. They are not trying to buy Premiership players, although clearly some might progress to that level e.g. Watkins. To compare all those players you list against Prem level is a little unfair. Palace will have better resources and bigger budgets so it is possible for us to uncover a few rough diamonds, the point is we haven't tried for a number of years. Cahill's signature a couple of years ago a classic example - go for Prem experience rather than a younger, lower wage, but riskier option. Just as an example look at our last season in the championship. Peterborough were also there. They signed Dwight Gayle in Jan and 6 months later we bought him for over 10 times as much. An extreme example, but why didn't we see that potential and stick him on the bench to support Murray? We were short of strikers as we bought Phillips at that time (not saying i wouldn't have got Phillips BTW, but he was always a short term option). Ivan Toney is another example - very highly rated at Peterborough. Could we not have bought him last year and mainly used him as a sub? Instead we spent £5m in wages on Bats. Now we couldn't afford Toney
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palace99

New Mills 03 Jun 21 6.11pm

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Jun 2021 5.00pm)

Fair comment re the harder it gets the higher up the league you are, but you are missing the point a little.
Brentford (were) are Championship level and Peterborough are league 1 so they are buying players from lower leagues who can step up and play at a that level. I think both have proved they are quite successful at this.
They are not trying to buy Premiership players, although clearly some might progress to that level e.g. Watkins.
To compare all those players you list against Prem level is a little unfair.
Palace will have better resources and bigger budgets so it is possible for us to uncover a few rough diamonds, the point is we haven't tried for a number of years. Cahill's signature a couple of years ago a classic example - go for Prem experience rather than a younger, lower wage, but riskier option.
Just as an example look at our last season in the championship. Peterborough were also there. They signed Dwight Gayle in Jan and 6 months later we bought him for over 10 times as much. An extreme example, but why didn't we see that potential and stick him on the bench to support Murray? We were short of strikers as we bought Phillips at that time (not saying i wouldn't have got Phillips BTW, but he was always a short term option).

Ivan Toney is another example - very highly rated at Peterborough. Could we not have bought him last year and mainly used him as a sub? Instead we spent £5m in wages on Bats. Now we couldn't afford Toney

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