Absolutely spot on. None of us are scientists, and at some stage you have to decide who to trust. Whether it's climate change, brexit or covid, you can't establish the whole truth of it on your own, and you have to trust what seems the consensus unless you have really good reason not to. The non-vaccine argument (as distinct from the anti-vax argument) is reliant upon conspiracy theory in that it requires scepticism of the motives and competence of very many others in order to operate.

I have some sympathy for conspiracy theories in that modern mainstream media treat everyone like a f***ing child (hello BBC) but that doesn't make everything a conspiracy.

one thing i have always said about this virus is that it should never have been politicalised…im no fan of the torys by a long stretch but you cant lay the blame at their door for it as its shown by almost every country has struggled with it bar the ones that recently had to deal with sars.

if everybody used common sense we wouldnt be at 40k + cases a day

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

The countries that dealt with SARS have a completely different culture to us and I’m glad of that. That is why our humour, music, entertainment and art is the best in the world, and why our football is so popular.

COYP

So much selective reporting, I can only assume that those who are espousing the 'vaccines don't work' side of the argument have not actually lost anyone to Covid.

To yesterday the UK has had 133,161 deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test. Just imagine what would have happened if we (the government) had done nothing as advocated by some on here, would it be nearer to 1 million?

The fact that it is a world-wide epidemic shows how dangerous it is and how easily spread.

Hospitalisations have dramatically reduced since vaccinations have been given, surely that shows that having the jab is beneficial.

Attributing the vaccine to mutations in the virus is simply against the facts, viruses always mutate, sometimes for the better (for them) sometimes worse, its evolution but quick because the life cycle of a virus is so short.

Are you still happy to carry on unvaccinated, you could be one of the 40,000 testing positive tomorrow or one of the 1000 hospitalised or one of the 120 dead within 28 days. Facts not supposition.

I have no problem being asked to prove that I have been vaccinated before attending a match, any more than I would if asked to have a breath test after a motor accident.

Has anyone on here actually been saying vaccines aren't working in reducing deaths?

You complain about selective reporting and then do your own.

Firstly many of that 40,000 figure you state are vaccinated., secondly, the numbers dying won't all be deaths only from covid, but also with covid.....how covid led they are isn't a stat that's collected....we just get the 28 days figure.

The vaccines do work, but they were never the silver bullet some regarded them to be, especially the weaker your immune system.....but they are a significant improvement.

And lastly how you feel about restrictions in civil liberties is cool and all that, but that isn't a template for everybody else.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 9.26pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

So you are willing to take a vaccine, currently in trials, with no long term side effects study, because - in your words - the corrupt, incompetent government that has no clue how to handle this tells you to?

And you say right wing, but exclude politicians on the left and middle as it were... who have come out against this and I assume you are left leaning, based on your focus on the bad right... but how liberal of you, so liberal of you to tell people what they can and cannot do with their body is selfish. You think 'anti vaxxers' sit home all day watching telly and drinking pop?

most of the people protesting have had vaccines, many have had this vaccine.. it's about the choice to choose...
where will this go next, is dependent on how we respond now.

2 weeks to flatten the curve, 18 months later, the devastation in its tracks from jobs lost, mortgages ruined, kids anxiety... mental health all round..

before you wanna go be the hero, go check the nhs numbers for the most common cause of death for males aged between 20-50...

You have no idea mate absolutely no idea, you do what you want to do, to protect yourself... and that's the way it has been and should be.

This was once a quality forum....