Yup how many times were we told this was just a scare story and rubbish and yet talks start next year lead by Macron.

Interestingly it is being reported that the EU would like the UK to have some form of military collaboration with them. Err no thanks they can't or wont defend themselves wont spend money on their own military (Germany) so they suddenly think lets get the Brits involved maybe their not as bad after all..

I am not against co-operation when the UK and the EU's national interests are threatened but this should be a case by case involvement.

We have already seen how reckless the EU can be over the Ukraine so I don't want us dragged into one of their messes and we end up doing the fighting whilst the Spanish Germans etc applaud us from the sidelines.

Trump was right, too many EU countries not pulling their weight when it comes to military spending and commitment.

One more point

Absolutely, the idea that we have sufficient money to run a global police force is ludicrous. Showing off our aircraft carrier to the Chinese is pretty pointless too.

I still don't think this will happen, it's simply too complicated.

But just to play devil's advocate and looking at the condition of European Armies.

The French might want it to happen to ensure Italy, Spain, Germany pay their fair share. France has a world class military, approximately on par with the British Armed forces. Between us we are probably the most effective major forces in the world per pound spent.

Germany might want it to happen as they have domestic opposition to expanding their own armed forces.

Whilst German's spend is low, they only had a small West German defence force between 1955 and 1991. They were forbidden from taking place in operations abroad until 1994, and the German economic recovery has centred around not funding an army (there's the saying - if you want to be good at building cars, first you must lose at war).

Spending alone isn't the only issue. You can't simply gear up spending. They have an inexperienced and presumably ineffective armed forces.

Similarly, the break up of the soviet Union would have left a void in the former Eastern Blocs armed forces. Most had to reform in 1990 and are still playing catch up.

There's possibly a benefit of having a greater cooperation between EU member states, but each has its own very specific defense objectives which means they will never agree to a single force.

[Link]

Not the best of sources but seems to be an idea not going away.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

The EU already has battlegroups but not the political will to deploy them.

The proposal is not of an EU army at present but more of a rapid reaction force as David Cameron favoured.

France and the EU are getting the message, after Afghanistan and aukus, that the USA acts in its own interests, so it has to adjust its stance, moving away from dependence on another disastrous president who has again split his allies without even a word.

So I would think Macron will be pulling out all the stops here to make France top dog militarily.

How right De Gaulle was all those years ago, he said 'non' because of the UKs special relationship with America, he pulled France out of NATO freed his country from being dragged into wars as we could well be here (Mrs May).

How it could ever be in our interests to mess with the most powerful country in the world on its own doorstep God only knows, but Johnson is just thick enough to be pushed (and push us) into the abyss.

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Good points I don't want to be dragged into pointless wars that are none of are business. If France wants to do the bleeding and dying for the EU sooner or later their people will demand that the others states stop hiding behind France's skirts.

The EU can be politically dangerous as we saw with their attitude to the Ukraine which provoked Russia and then the EU did nothing.

A lot of hot air from EU politicians when there is a crisis but low on actually action mainly because most of the 27 don't want to get involved.

We should not be dragged around by the US or the EU but keep our own counsel and only act when it suits us. Harold Wilson showed us that with Vietnam.

One more point