There is no factual basis to what your saying - alcohol is every bit as addictive, destructive and harmful (I'd argue moreso) than many, many illegal drugs - the idea that if you're feeling down it's fine to drink yourself into a hole, but having a spliff is a hard no, just has zero basis in terms of the actual substances - it's just that we as society view one as acceptable/normal.

To suggest alcohol isn't a likely longer term problem is a strange point - the numbers of people addicted to alcohol in this country is staggering.

On the purity; de-criminalising solves that as the substances can be regulated and produced properly.

Of course it is your opinion; there is no factual basis to statements like "they will get hooked very easily" - tobacco is infinitely more addictive than most illegal drugs, for example, it's not a reason to outlaw it.

You've summarised that alcohol isn't as bad because it's less likely to be a long-term problem... that's a bizarre claim - how many thousands of people have long-term addictions to alcohol in this country?

The other question is whether what you're suggesting (more lip-service about clamping down and more prohibition) actually achieves what you want to achieve (less addiction/less damaging consequences for users) and the answer is a resounding no.

What is there to suggest that this latest war on drugs will be any more successful than the last 50 years worth?

And if your answer to that is there isn't anything to suggest that, then is it not time to try something different?

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (07 Dec 2021 1.09pm)

This could be a first but I make you right.
There are more alcoholics than junkies and the secondary effects of alcohol far outweigh the drug issues. How many stoned people fight for anything other their next fix. Some drunk people ,even if not alcoholics create mayhem and lots of police time.
The difference is that its taxable and from where I see it if drugs were legalised the problems associated with it would gradually decrease both personally,financially and socially.

How hard do you make enforcement though?
Is it worse than mugging or stabbing.
Is it worse than drink driving or TDA.
Prohibition could be an example of how hard to go but with my other post I'm being hypocritical with my thoughts about alcohol once prohibition was cancelled. Difficult one to call.
Maybe concentrate on heroin and work backwards, I don't know.

I think you broadly answer it in your own post - you will never eradicate problem users, the same way you never eradicate problem drinkers, but you ensure the support structures are there for the people who need them - treat addiction as a health problem rather than a criminal one - there's quite a lot in the Portgual study I shared about that, and we manage to do it to some extent already with alcoholics and people trying to quit smoking.

Problematic use of drugs (legal and illegal) is strongly correlated with poverty and deprivation - creating a society where not so many people feel the need to alter the reality to quite that extent they do and quite as often as they do is a much more worthwhile ambition than more prohibition.

Given the amount of money thrown at this over the decades and the number of people convicted, I would challenge that assertion - how much more does he want us to spend? how many more people in prison?

You are someone who puts a lot of stock in human nature - basically every culture in human history have used psychoactive substances, so there is nothing unusual or unnatural in people's desire to do these things (there are many examples of animals seeking natural 'highs' in the animal kingdom) - knowing that as a reality; we either try to fight it, or we accept it and adjust our approach - I think it's fairly obvious what makes more sense.

The reality is that any level of evidence-based approach to this problem would conclude that Portugal's (and other's) approach has been astronomically more successful in 5 years than the war on drugs has in 50 - the question is why do we continue to bang our head against the same wall?

Precisely - and it's not to detract from what Dolphin has experienced, but it's what I mean when I say our current position on drugs is an emotional one, rather than being based on any logic or evidence.

We know this stuff doesn't work, but it feels safer to use words like 'clamp down' and 'crackdown', and that holds weight when people have suffered.