Boris is toast.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.15pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Yeah don't trust the proles with a vote leave it to their lords and masters. They aren't though our "lords and masters" are they? We are theirs. We choose who represents us. Once we do, we need to allow them to do their job. We have done ours. Taking our responsibilities more seriously would encourage them not to take us for granted. We have the collective power to choose people who deliver what we need and, if they don't, we replace them. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.15pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Yeah don't trust the proles with a vote leave it to their lords and masters.

They aren't though our "lords and masters" are they?

We are theirs. We choose who represents us. Once we do, we need to allow them to do their job. We have done ours. Taking our responsibilities more seriously would encourage them not to take us for granted.

We have the collective power to choose people who deliver what we need and, if they don't, we replace them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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georgenorman 13 Jan 22 10.18pm
Originally posted by HKOwen What was Corbyn's Brexit policy, I can't remember. I remember Thornberry talking some rubbish about renegotiating from a position of wanting to remain but best to ignore the stuff she spouts. [Link] Edited by HKOwen (13 Jan 2022 9.46pm) Throughout his political career, Corbyn was very much against us being a member of the EU. He changed his official line when becoming leader of the Labour party and pretended that he wanted us to remain.
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georgenorman

13 Jan 22 10.18pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

What was Corbyn's Brexit policy, I can't remember. I remember Thornberry talking some rubbish about renegotiating from a position of wanting to remain but best to ignore the stuff she spouts.

[Link]

Edited by HKOwen (13 Jan 2022 9.46pm)

Throughout his political career, Corbyn was very much against us being a member of the EU. He changed his official line when becoming leader of the Labour party and pretended that he wanted us to remain.

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BlueJay UK 13 Jan 22 10.21pm
Originally posted by Matov Boris won because Labour decided to try and over-turn the 2016 result. Utter insanity for a whole host of reasons I have bored people with on numerous occassions so will not do so now but Boris is in number 10 because of people who refused to accept that 52, when expressed as a %, is bigger than 48. It fairness Corbyn clearly wasn't pro remai, and even if Labour had gone along with Brexit without question, a serious proportion of their voters would've reacted negatively to that. In short through circumstance, there wasn't any path to victory anyway. At least with Brexit now done, people are able to vote on issues beyond that.
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BlueJay

UK 13 Jan 22 10.21pm

Originally posted by Matov

Boris won because Labour decided to try and over-turn the 2016 result. Utter insanity for a whole host of reasons I have bored people with on numerous occassions so will not do so now but Boris is in number 10 because of people who refused to accept that 52, when expressed as a %, is bigger than 48.

It fairness Corbyn clearly wasn't pro remai, and even if Labour had gone along with Brexit without question, a serious proportion of their voters would've reacted negatively to that. In short through circumstance, there wasn't any path to victory anyway. At least with Brexit now done, people are able to vote on issues beyond that.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.23pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm very happy we are out, as are many others. I believe it was absolutely correct to put the question directly to the people. It's a shame we weren't asked about mass immigration. You would though, wouldn't you? You are typical fodder for a populist's agenda, dutifully lapping up their simple answers to complex issues. I don't doubt you would like to replace our representative democracy with one where we elected delegates who are told by a local cabal of the majority party in their constituency how to vote on everything. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.23pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm very happy we are out, as are many others.

I believe it was absolutely correct to put the question directly to the people.
It's a shame we weren't asked about mass immigration.

You would though, wouldn't you? You are typical fodder for a populist's agenda, dutifully lapping up their simple answers to complex issues.

I don't doubt you would like to replace our representative democracy with one where we elected delegates who are told by a local cabal of the majority party in their constituency how to vote on everything.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.49pm
Originally posted by Matov But Parliament did permit. Voted by a huge margin to hold the referendum and then by a huge margin to invoke Article 50. The referendum only came about because of the Parliamentary process. And then in 2017, we have a general election fought on both Labour and the Conservatives making clear manifesto promises to honour the vote. Boris won because Labour decided to try and over-turn the 2016 result. Utter insanity for a whole host of reasons I have bored people with on numerous occassions so will not do so now but Boris is in number 10 because of people who refused to accept that 52, when expressed as a %, is bigger than 48. Get Brexit Done. Remember that slogan? You want to slate Boris for what he has done since, then fill your boots. No issues from me on that. But people like you are the primary reason why he is able to enjoy 'wine and nibbles' in Downing Street. Own that. Accept responsibility for that. The campaign for a second referendum, which was only ever about over-turning the Leave vote, handed Boris his win in 2019 on a plate. I realise that Parliament voted to both hold and honour the referendum, so as a consequence everything was done legally. That's not the issue. Our Parliament failed to do their duty. The Tories only agreed to hold one to stave off UKIP, and there were sufficient weaklings in the opposition scared of losing their seats to ensure it happened. Parliament bottled it when they needed to stand up and be counted. If that meant being counted out that was just tough. Johnson didn't win because Labour tried to over-turn the result. That's garbage. He won because of clever marketing, boredom, trickery and the lack of any kind of rational opposition. No-one wanted to over-turn the result. What was asked for was for the people to confirm, after a 4 year delay, lots of revelations and time for re-thinking, that it was still their wish to take such a momentous step. If the Brexiteers were so confident of their case, what were they fearful of? Surely any true democrat welcomes the opportunity to verify the will of the people? Of course 52 is bigger than 48 but anyone who believes that's part of the argument, let alone the end of it, really doesn't get it at all. Of course, I don't "own" any of Johnson's failings. I could see them years ago. For the reasons I explained above Johnson's victory had nothing to do with any attempt to over-turn the referendum result. It was clever work by Cummings and a desperately awful opposition, combined with a very tired electorate that just wanted it over. Clever marketing slogans are what you use to sell soap powder. It's not the way to run a country. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 10.49pm

Originally posted by Matov

But Parliament did permit. Voted by a huge margin to hold the referendum and then by a huge margin to invoke Article 50. The referendum only came about because of the Parliamentary process. And then in 2017, we have a general election fought on both Labour and the Conservatives making clear manifesto promises to honour the vote.

Get Brexit Done. Remember that slogan?

You want to slate Boris for what he has done since, then fill your boots. No issues from me on that. But people like you are the primary reason why he is able to enjoy 'wine and nibbles' in Downing Street.

Own that. Accept responsibility for that. The campaign for a second referendum, which was only ever about over-turning the Leave vote, handed Boris his win in 2019 on a plate.

I realise that Parliament voted to both hold and honour the referendum, so as a consequence everything was done legally. That's not the issue. Our Parliament failed to do their duty. The Tories only agreed to hold one to stave off UKIP, and there were sufficient weaklings in the opposition scared of losing their seats to ensure it happened. Parliament bottled it when they needed to stand up and be counted. If that meant being counted out that was just tough.

Johnson didn't win because Labour tried to over-turn the result. That's garbage. He won because of clever marketing, boredom, trickery and the lack of any kind of rational opposition. No-one wanted to over-turn the result. What was asked for was for the people to confirm, after a 4 year delay, lots of revelations and time for re-thinking, that it was still their wish to take such a momentous step. If the Brexiteers were so confident of their case, what were they fearful of? Surely any true democrat welcomes the opportunity to verify the will of the people? Of course 52 is bigger than 48 but anyone who believes that's part of the argument, let alone the end of it, really doesn't get it at all.

Of course, I don't "own" any of Johnson's failings. I could see them years ago. For the reasons I explained above Johnson's victory had nothing to do with any attempt to over-turn the referendum result. It was clever work by Cummings and a desperately awful opposition, combined with a very tired electorate that just wanted it over. Clever marketing slogans are what you use to sell soap powder. It's not the way to run a country.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 11.01pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Gina Miller has launched her new party but only 13 people turned up to the launch. [Link] I think she's about to find out there is a big difference in winning a few court cases on point of law and actually stepping into the lions den of politics where you have to have policies. I suspect she will go the way of Laurence Fox. That's quite sad. She is a principled and honest lady who would make an excellent MP. Launching a new party demands much more than that though. It needs an organisation, and that needs lots of money, so backing from somewhere. How that can happen in 2022 is difficult to imagine. Perhaps, let's hope, George Soros is getting one of his Foundations primed to try to save British democracy. Both the Tories, and Labour, are now demonstrably past their sell by dates and seemingly incapable of re-inventing themselves. We need a reset. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Jan 22 11.01pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Gina Miller has launched her new party but only 13 people turned up to the launch.

[Link]

I think she's about to find out there is a big difference in winning a few court cases on point of law and actually stepping into the lions den of politics where you have to have policies.

I suspect she will go the way of Laurence Fox.

That's quite sad. She is a principled and honest lady who would make an excellent MP. Launching a new party demands much more than that though. It needs an organisation, and that needs lots of money, so backing from somewhere. How that can happen in 2022 is difficult to imagine. Perhaps, let's hope, George Soros is getting one of his Foundations primed to try to save British democracy.

Both the Tories, and Labour, are now demonstrably past their sell by dates and seemingly incapable of re-inventing themselves. We need a reset.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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the.universal 14 Jan 22 12.08am
Bring back Robert Kilroy-Silk Vive le Roy!
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the.universal 14 Jan 22 12.08am

Bring back Robert Kilroy-Silk

Vive le Roy!

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dreamwaverider London 14 Jan 22 2.06am
Following the latest revelations Boris really must do the honourable thing and offer the Queen his resignation. Day after day he is being badly exposed and I�m sure there will be more to come. Staying in post is humiliating for him and embarrassing for everyone else. Time to fall Boris.
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dreamwaverider

London 14 Jan 22 2.06am

Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider

Following the latest revelations Boris really must do the honourable thing and offer the Queen his resignation. Day after day he is being badly exposed and I�m sure there will be more to come. Staying in post is humiliating for him and embarrassing for everyone else. Time to fall Boris.

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cryrst The garden of England 14 Jan 22 6.04am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I realise that Parliament voted to both hold and honour the referendum, so as a consequence everything was done legally. That's not the issue. Our Parliament failed to do their duty. The Tories only agreed to hold one to stave off UKIP, and there were sufficient weaklings in the opposition scared of losing their seats to ensure it happened. Parliament bottled it when they needed to stand up and be counted. If that meant being counted out that was just tough. Johnson didn't win because Labour tried to over-turn the result. That's garbage. He won because of clever marketing, boredom, trickery and the lack of any kind of rational opposition. No-one wanted to over-turn the result. What was asked for was for the people to confirm, after a 4 year delay, lots of revelations and time for re-thinking, that it was still their wish to take such a momentous step. If the Brexiteers were so confident of their case, what were they fearful of? Surely any true democrat welcomes the opportunity to verify the will of the people? Of course 52 is bigger than 48 but anyone who believes that's part of the argument, let alone the end of it, really doesn't get it at all. Of course, I don't "own" any of Johnson's failings. I could see them years ago. For the reasons I explained above Johnson's victory had nothing to do with any attempt to over-turn the referendum result. It was clever work by Cummings and a desperately awful opposition, combined with a very tired electorate that just wanted it over. Clever marketing slogans are what you use to sell soap powder. It's not the way to run a country. 'For the many, not the few' ring a bell then !
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cryrst

The garden of England 14 Jan 22 6.04am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

'For the many, not the few' ring a bell then !

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Jan 22 9.32am
Sir Keir using same excuse as Boris. ""Sir Keir was seen having a beer while standing close to two other people. The image was taken from outside the window of a constituency office in Durham in the days leading up to the Hartlepool by-election."" "The (Labour) party said in a statement: "Keir was in the workplace, meeting a local MP in her constituency office and participating in an online Labour Party event. And the difference between that and 10 Downing Street garden is? They are all as bad as each other. Most of us assume that drinking is a social rather than a work place event maybe this says more about MPs and their drinking habits than it does about COVID rule breaking. I worked in the Financial sector the drinking at work culture was frowned on in the nineties, maybe MPs are a bit behind the curve. Edited by Badger11 (14 Jan 2022 9.35am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 Jan 22 9.32am

Sir Keir using same excuse as Boris.

""Sir Keir was seen having a beer while standing close to two other people. The image was taken from outside the window of a constituency office in Durham in the days leading up to the Hartlepool by-election.""

"The (Labour) party said in a statement: "Keir was in the workplace, meeting a local MP in her constituency office and participating in an online Labour Party event.

And the difference between that and 10 Downing Street garden is?

They are all as bad as each other.

Most of us assume that drinking is a social rather than a work place event maybe this says more about MPs and their drinking habits than it does about COVID rule breaking. I worked in the Financial sector the drinking at work culture was frowned on in the nineties, maybe MPs are a bit behind the curve.

Edited by Badger11 (14 Jan 2022 9.35am)

One more point

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BlueJay UK 14 Jan 22 9.51am
Originally posted by the.universal Bring back Robert Kilroy-Silk [Link]
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BlueJay

UK 14 Jan 22 9.51am

Originally posted by the.universal

Bring back Robert Kilroy-Silk

[Link]

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 14 Jan 22 10.28am
Originally posted by Badger11 Sir Keir using same excuse as Boris. ""Sir Keir was seen having a beer while standing close to two other people. The image was taken from outside the window of a constituency office in Durham in the days leading up to the Hartlepool by-election."" "The (Labour) party said in a statement: "Keir was in the workplace, meeting a local MP in her constituency office and participating in an online Labour Party event. And the difference between that and 10 Downing Street garden is? They are all as bad as each other. Most of us assume that drinking is a social rather than a work place event maybe this says more about MPs and their drinking habits than it does about COVID rule breaking. I worked in the Financial sector the drinking at work culture was frowned on in the nineties, maybe MPs are a bit behind the curve. Edited by Badger11 (14 Jan 2022 9.35am) Beat me to it Badger . . . Here's the link to the report published earlier . . . [Link] I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold, When a blind man cries, Lord, he feels it from his soul. [Link]
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 14 Jan 22 10.28am

Originally posted by Badger11

Sir Keir using same excuse as Boris.

"The (Labour) party said in a statement: "Keir was in the workplace, meeting a local MP in her constituency office and participating in an online Labour Party event.

And the difference between that and 10 Downing Street garden is?

They are all as bad as each other.

Edited by Badger11 (14 Jan 2022 9.35am)

Beat me to it Badger . . .

Here's the link to the report published earlier . . . [Link]

I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold,
When a blind man cries, Lord, he feels it from his soul.
[Link]

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